January 2005 Dispatches/Top 10 War Movies

[Lance Williams]

You knew it wouldn't be long, so I'll be the first to ask, "Where is 'Saving Private Ryan'?"...........

For the most part I think you have made some fine selections. In fact there is only one included movie that I would question. Even as only an honorable mention I think it's a stretch to put "Enemy at the Gates" on the list. I think it has some excellent scenes, but taken as a whole its certainly not in the top 20 war movies.

It's the movies that have been omitted that I question far more. Where are:

-Saving Private Ryan
-A Bridge Too Far
-The Longest Day
-Glory
-Lawrence of Arabia
-Gettysburg
-Battle of Britain
-Gallipoli
-The Patriot

[RichardS]

Originally Posted by Lance Williams

It's the movies that have been omitted that I question far more. Where are:

-Saving Private Ryan
-A Bridge Too Far
-The Longest Day
-Glory
-Lawrence of Arabia
-Gettysburg
-Battle of Britain
-Gallipoli
-The Patriot

Let's not forget:
-Zulu
-Der Brucke
-Soldier of Orange
-Winter War!

:flag:

[Lance Williams]

Definately "Zulu"!!!!!!

[Saint Jeremy]

Is Black Hawk Down on there? I havent recieved the issue yet. BHD is my favorite favorite movie of all time followed by We Were Soldiers.

[RetPara]

BHD and WWS both got honerable mention.

I concur with the above. My reaction to the list was 'huh?'

[Larkin]

Lance, what's your problem with Enemy at the Gates?

[nreese21]

Originally Posted by Larkin

Lance, what's your problem with Enemy at the Gates?

I like EAG, but it kept going back to the love story every time it was getting good.

Just a question to ACG Mag writers, why didn't you put SPR on there? I'm curious to see your reasoning.

[Lance Williams]

Originally Posted by Larkin

Lance, what's your problem with Enemy at the Gates?

First of all I think that many of the action sequences are quite good..........I would give it 2 stars out of 4, watchable for that alone. What I didn't like was the love story and (sorry Dr. S.) the British accents (although I thought Bob Hoskins was great). It's not terrible, its not "Windtalkers" or "Pearl Harbor", it's just not top 20.

[RetPara]

Wait a minute... What about

"The Green Berets" now how the hell can any list be complete without that? Leaving out the Duke can get a person brought before the Inquisition...

[Lance Williams]

Originally Posted by RetPara

Wait a minute... What about

"The Green Berets" now how the hell can any list be complete without that? Leaving out the Duke can get a person brought before the Inquisition...

A much a fan of John Wayne as I am, I would be hard pressed to call The "Green Berets" a great movie. It has some great action scenes, but it has not "aged" particularly well. The extreme hard line, conservative stance of the film's makers seems locked in a "time warp" when compared to the course of the latter stages of the war.

[RetPara]

Served with SF... spent the better part of 12 years at Bragg... so I will admit to a 'touch' of bias... other than that Lance - bite your tongue... as for hardline; you haven't SEEN hardline yet.

[JD Morelock]

I knew our 'Top 10 War Films' list would generate a lot of forum discussion and you guys haven't let me down! This is great and the comments are super and much appreciated.

I've been at a magazine convention in NYC, so have not had the chance to post until now.

Here's some general comments and considerations on the 'Top 10' list that will help put our list in perspective:

--To paraphrase Highlander somewhat, "There can be only TEN!" i.e. we had to limit the number of picks. Therefore, some otherwise excellent war films didn't make it. Some of the ones being mentioned on the forum here are super...but...

--Most of the ones on the list have withstood the test of time and have come down as true 'classics' of the film genre (with some exceptions, of course). The implications of this are that many later films, particularly those recent ones with the state of the art special effects that we all love so much (did someone say "Saving Private Ryan" about this time?) were passed over in favor of the ones you see on the list.

--Similarly, the films chosen are ones that are consistently excellent in their totality, i.e. while many war movies have great moments, the ones on this list are particularly noteworthy when viewed as a whole. (e.g. SPR again--the Omaha Beach attack in Ryan is likely the best film depiction of combat I've ever seen. In fact, I use it in my college history course on WWII. The problem is that the rest of SPR--except for the special effects--is formulaic, cliched, emotionally manipulative and totally predictable. Minus the superb Omaha Beach segment and some excellent performances by fine actors, SPR was nearly a remake of "A Walk in the Sun", a 1945 'typical' wartime effort.)

--We sought a reasonable 'spread' of branch of service (i.e. not all 'Army' films), historical time periods (i.e. not all WWII), and country of origin (i.e. not all American films). This is not to say that we had 'quotas'--we didn't--but we wanted to have a broader scope to the selections.

--John Wayne will actually get his own 'top' list in a future issue of Armchair General. We're putting together a list of "Top 10 John Wayne War Films" as we speak. Duke fans should stay tuned.

--Finally, I think the real reason that Lance hates Enemy at the Gates is because it had a French director...

[The Doctor]

Originally Posted by Lance Williams

A much a fan of John Wayne as I am, I would be hard pressed to call The "Green Berets" a great movie. It has some great action scenes, but it has not "aged" particularly well. The extreme hard line, conservative stance of the film's makers seems locked in a "time warp" when compared to the course of the latter stages of the war.

The Green Berets should be on the list for three reasons:

A-1 Skyraider - a rare film appearance. Are "Flight of the Intruder", "We Were Soldiers" and "The Bridges at Toko-ri" on the list?

AC-47 Spooky - I think its only film appearance.

Fulton Recovery System - in any other war movie?

My system is arbitrary and capricious, but it is a system. Of course my system would put "Operation: Dumbo Drop" on the list too (C-123 Provider). I didn't say it was a good system.

[Blackcloud6]

The Green Berets should be on the list for three reasons:

And don't forget the only time a Mattel Toy M-16 was in a war movie...

[HiredGoon]

Originally Posted by JD Morelock

(e.g. SPR again--the Omaha Beach attack in Ryan is likely the best film depiction of combat I've ever seen. In fact, I use it in my college history course on WWII. The problem is that the rest of SPR--except for the special effects--is formulaic, cliched, emotionally manipulative and totally predictable. Minus the superb Omaha Beach segment and some excellent performances by fine actors, SPR was nearly a remake of "A Walk in the Sun", a 1945 'typical' wartime effort.)

I agree %100. I also believe "Enemy at the Gates," (while it has some impressive combat scenes toward the beginning), also falls into "formulaic, cliched, emotionally manipulative and totally predictable" Hollywood mold. It's very hard to get a film from Hollywood that doesn't fall into this trap. That's why I like foreign films like "Das Boot" and "Capitaine Conan," and am looking forward to the new French WWI film "The Very Long Engagement."

P.S. Could someone post the complete list for those of us who are waiting for the issue to hit the store shelves?