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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > North America

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North America Important Events in Canada and the United States. .

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  #1  
Old 06 Oct 17, 09:10
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First Turkey now Saudi Arabia

What has flown beneath the radar of most people lately is the way that Russia has been inserting itself between NATO, the USA and their allies lately; this is just one more example.

Quote:
Saudis Rock US Alliance, Say They’ll Buy Russia’s Top Plane Killer, S-400

WASHINGTON: That rumble under your feet you sensed this morning was the earthquake caused by the decision of one of America’s closest allies, Saudis Arabia, to join Turkey in buying Russia’s vaunted S-400 surface to air missile system.

The announcement carried extra diplomatic weight as Saudi King Salman was visiting Russia when the Saudis made the announcement.

Former NATO and European Command leader, retired Adm. James Stavridis, called the sale “a step backwards in US foreign and defense policy.” Since World War II, when President Roosevelt agreed with King Faisal that we would guarantee Saudi sovereignty in return for access to their oil, the kingdom has been one of our closest allies, notwithstanding the 911 attacks led by Saudi citizens.
https://breakingdefense.com/2017/10/...-killer-s-400/
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  #2  
Old 06 Oct 17, 09:46
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Cool

Yah Chief, that's disappointing but I'm sure to the Saudis it's more like - "Where did you get that, Macy's or Gimbel's?"
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  #3  
Old 06 Oct 17, 09:57
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I think it's a bit more than that. But not to worry...POTUS is taking care of the IMPORTANT stuff, like the NFL and Fake/flake/Fox news.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 10:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
What has flown beneath the radar of most people lately is the way that Russia has been inserting itself between NATO, the USA and their allies lately; this is just one more example.
The main reason why Russia has been successful in this regard is quite simple: the Russians under Putin have generally kept their word in the tangled mess of the Middle East over the past few years. The US - on the other hand - has consistently played double games and has come across as generally chaotic in its foreign policy. Kurds, FSA, "moderate rebels", Turks even Israel have encountered consistent changes and unpredictable behaviour on the part of the US. Although this preceded Trump it has only gotten worse under his administration.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 17:32
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Could be punishment for our relations with Qatar.

The plus side is that I'm sure that we'll be able to get a close look at this system.

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  #6  
Old 06 Oct 17, 18:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer86g View Post
Could be punishment for our relations with Qatar.

The plus side is that I'm sure that we'll be able to get a close look at this system.

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And they'll also promptly show the Russians our THAAD system that we're selling the Saudi's....

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/35...o-saudi-arabia

Quote:
The State Department on Friday approved a $15 billion missile defense sale to Saudi Arabia, even as some lawmakers contest the sale over human rights concerns.
Quote:
Saudi Arabia has requested 44 THAAD launchers, 360 interceptor missiles, radars, batteries, trucks to move the system and other equipment.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 18:57
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Wait until the Saudis try to get spare parts! The Russians don't do spare parts well.

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Old 06 Oct 17, 19:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Wait until the Saudis try to get spare parts! The Russians don't do spare parts well.

Pruitt
Saudi procurement is very good at managing contracts for spare parts. The normal practice is that part of the contract includes that the supplier establishes a store of spare parts in Saudi in advance but Saudi only pays for what they actually use. If spare part usage exceeds what the supplier quoted in the original contract then that is at the suppliers cost. Those are the terms that BAC had to agree to for the Tornados and other suppliers were tied down to similar contracts
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Old 06 Oct 17, 19:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
I think it's a bit more than that. But not to worry...POTUS is taking care of the IMPORTANT stuff, like the NFL and Fake/flake/Fox news.
What would you like him to do? Go to war against the Saudis, or the Russians?

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Old 06 Oct 17, 19:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
The main reason why Russia has been successful in this regard is quite simple: the Russians under Putin have generally kept their word in the tangled mess of the Middle East over the past few years. The US - on the other hand - has consistently played double games and has come across as generally chaotic in its foreign policy. Kurds, FSA, "moderate rebels", Turks even Israel have encountered consistent changes and unpredictable behaviour on the part of the US. Although this preceded Trump it has only gotten worse under his administration.
Indeed, I imagine many of the most pro-Israeli Americans would be more than a little shocked to see that Israel no longer sees America as a reliable ally.

American foreign policy is too prone to alterations due to domestic politics to make long-term calculations worthwhile. Of course, some will just dump this all on Obama (not that he's without fault - see quote below), but the fact is that when you have a president loudly doubting the nations commitment to things like NATO, it has a knock-on effect for American ties abroad.

The "American First" policy is self-defeating in that regard because, what many fail to grasp, is that all nations pursue a "<Nation> First" policy - they just tend to not declare that loudly and repeatedly, but adopt a "We will work with others/the international community/our allies" line and at least play the game.

The last three presidents have done much to harm American opinion abroad, whether from instigating large and unjustified wars, to constant meddling and intervention without clear goals, to just adopting a schizophrenic and erratic policy in general.

Hell, when the United States can't even be trusted to honor treaty obligations requiring the work of multiple nations, there isn't much room to believe that the US can be counted on.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 20:32
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Ah Russian reliability. A oxymoron if there ever was one...

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-mid...tor-gets-stuck
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Old 06 Oct 17, 20:35
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But, you never know with the Russians... They could sell them the missiles and have filled them with bits from old watches and what not instead...
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Old 06 Oct 17, 21:10
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But, you never know with the Russians... They could sell them the missiles and have filled them with bits from old watches and what not instead...
Do you think that is how arms deals work. It will come with a couple years of Russian support and training. They, and us, sell weapon packages once you move out if small arms and dumb bombs.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 21:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Wait until the Saudis try to get spare parts! The Russians don't do spare parts well.

Pruitt
They do when you pay for them. Plus they deal comes with a large amount of Saudi based and owned parts manufactured in SA.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 21:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Do you think that is how arms deals work. It will come with a couple years of Russian support and training. They, and us, sell weapon packages once you move out if small arms and dumb bombs.
The Russians also tend to sell other nations "stripper" versions of their gear without all the good stuff included on it. The US usually does an export version that's got middling stuff that we used to use on that weapon system but have moved beyond, but it isn't bottom of the barrel either.
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