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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Europe

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Europe Issues of modern Europe.

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  #1  
Old 04 Oct 17, 01:40
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France approves tough new anti-terror laws

Quote:
France's lower house of parliament has approved a new anti-terrorism law intended to bring an end to a nearly two-year-long state of emergency.

The law will incorporate several measures first authorised under the emergency arrangement.

They include easier searches of homes and confining individuals to their home towns, without judicial approval.

Most people in France approve of the move, but it has been criticised by rights groups.

A state of emergency was first introduced after the attacks of 13 November 2015, when militants from so-called Islamic State (IS) killed 130 people in gun and bomb attacks in Paris.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41493707
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  #2  
Old 04 Oct 17, 17:46
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Seems fairly sensible stuff, though it falls into the common category of tactical, police / legal measures. It is not something that considers the root cause and articulates a broader strategy.

A cynic might say it is a politicians ploy to drop the State of Emergency.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 12:15
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Originally Posted by Escape2Victory View Post

A cynic might say it is a politicians ploy to drop the State of Emergency.
A realist might say this ;I expected this the evening Macron became president .
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Old 06 Oct 17, 12:25
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So the French people as a whole will give up their freedoms for a bunch of violent Muslims that contribute NOTHING to the country. Boy, does that make sense? It sounds like the french again are caving into the demands of terrorists. Way to go France.
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  #5  
Old 06 Oct 17, 14:48
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Works fine with me.
Pay my taxes ,respect my neighbors , help the aged , respect the police .
Just like any law abiding US citizen

Big state won't look into my basement for a Kalash .
The fact that the gov is able to make the bastards life harder than before makes my day.

Next step : the closing of all the boyfans sites on the net.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 15:47
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Being a slave to government can be an easy life.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101combatvet View Post
So the French people as a whole will give up their freedoms for a bunch of violent Muslims that contribute NOTHING to the country. Boy, does that make sense? It sounds like the french again are caving into the demands of terrorists. Way to go France.
Well, as Macron said that France was co-responsible for terrorism, ...

After the mass-murders of november 13 2015 , he said that France had a "share of responsibility" in the "soil which Jihadism thrives " .

This is the same as if the chief rabbi of Germany would say after the Kristallnacht that the Jews were co-responsible .

And, not to be outdone by Obama, he also said that terrorism was linked to climate-change .
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Old 06 Oct 17, 17:11
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Good news: state of emergency is coming to an end
Bad news: state of emergency is being codified into law
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Old 06 Oct 17, 17:30
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So Macron gets placed on my list of assholes next to Obama. Noted!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Well, as Macron said that France was co-responsible for terrorism, ...

After the mass-murders of november 13 2015 , he said that France had a "share of responsibility" in the "soil which Jihadism thrives " .

This is the same as if the chief rabbi of Germany would say after the Kristallnacht that the Jews were co-responsible .

And, not to be outdone by Obama, he also said that terrorism was linked to climate-change .
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Old 06 Oct 17, 17:46
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101 , do you really believe that you're living in a different reality that the one I daily experiment?
If yes , good for you.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 18:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Works fine with me.
Pay my taxes ,respect my neighbors , help the aged , respect the police .
Just like any law abiding US citizen

Big state won't look into my basement for a Kalash .
The fact that the gov is able to make the bastards life harder than before makes my day.

Next step : the closing of all the boyfans sites on the net.
All joking aside, were I a French citizen, this new law would cause me genuine worry. As seen with the example of the 1996 Telecommunications Act, once a government's powers are increased, not only is it near impossible to roll back that increase, but that initial increase tends to lead to yet more increases in the state's intrusive powers. You have to remember that a government's currency isn't money, it's power. The powers granted in this new law are not meant to sit upon a shelf as a silent threat to wrongdoers, but they're meant to be used, and as they're used, the agencies that are using them will want to use them more, seeking out more cases of wrongdoing, redefining wrongdoing along the way, in order to justify calls for yet more powers. The US' "War on Drugs" has gone through several such cycles. A law like this can very easily be the first step down a slippery slope. I'm no expert about French law and legal custom, but for your sake I sure hope that your constitutional court strikes this bill down, as granting too much extra-constitutional power to the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
All joking aside, were I a French citizen, this new law would cause me genuine worry. As seen with the example of the 1996 Telecommunications Act, once a government's powers are increased, not only is it near impossible to roll back that increase, but that initial increase tends to lead to yet more increases in the state's intrusive powers. You have to remember that a government's currency isn't money, it's power. The powers granted in this new law are not meant to sit upon a shelf as a silent threat to wrongdoers, but they're meant to be used, and as they're used, the agencies that are using them will want to use them more, seeking out more cases of wrongdoing, redefining wrongdoing along the way, in order to justify calls for yet more powers. The US' "War on Drugs" has gone through several such cycles. A law like this can very easily be the first step down a slippery slope. I'm no expert about French law and legal custom, but for your sake I sure hope that your constitutional court strikes this bill down, as granting too much extra-constitutional power to the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus.
Problem is that, like with our own anti-terror laws, the excuses for such expansion are hard to ignore and are pretty palatable to the common man (or even just the angry or fearful man). Extremists provoke a response. I've discussed this before on just American expenditures in the war on terror and how we spend quite a lot of -illions and -illions for negligible or doubtful gain, and people will be quick to label you anything from anti-American to an Islamic apologists for pointing out that the cost-benefit analysis doesn't make as much sense. And that's even before we get into your Patriot Act legislation and the like.

But it cannot be denied that the law must reflect the will of the people, and for people afraid of terrorism, of being run down in the streets plus a strong response is often necessary. People are not beings of pure reason and logic. We are victims to our emotions, and the simple fact is that when it comes to protecting our friends and family, we feel a justified and understandable need to act.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 19:02
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Seb, can have my own opinions?

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101 , do you really believe that you're living in a different reality that the one I daily experiment?
If yes , good for you.
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Old 06 Oct 17, 19:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
Good news: state of emergency is coming to an end
Bad news: state of emergency is being codified into law
That seems to be the general response to these emergency situations, doesn't it?
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Old 07 Oct 17, 04:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
Good news: state of emergency is coming to an end
Bad news: state of emergency is being codified into law
Only partly I think?

The reason some the jihadi attacks have been limited is they were quickly shot by a police or soldiers. The State of Emergency has put more people with guns on the street. Not sure if that will unwind once the Emergency is called off.

It's not obvious the threat to France has dropped at all, so not sure why they are downgrading the threat response either.
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