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  #46  
Old 02 Oct 17, 23:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamak View Post
Any comments about this NRA video?
The anti's do not want the system to work properly. A working system would take some of their steam away from their overall project..... the removal of ALL guns from "the people's" hands.

To me, it boils down to one thing..... I want to have the option to own a gun, or two..... or ten. Exercise the option or not is no one's business at all, including the "bad guys".

GG
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  #47  
Old 02 Oct 17, 23:49
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If you cannot buy 4dozens of various weapons when you're 64 , you're not living in a democracy.
He simply expressed there his 2 nd amendment .
Why is it so hard for the leftist here to get that ?
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  #48  
Old 03 Oct 17, 00:02
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This guy was fairly well off. He owned real estate, had money in stocks, and was doing fairly well for himself. If he wanted a machinegun he had the financial resources to get one and the ammunition for it. No law was going to stop that from happening.

He was, in essence, the most dangerous sort of deviant / radical / terrorist / whatever like that you want to run into. He was reasonably smart, wealthy, and capable of planning. You don't stop this sort of person easily. He's not the sort of person law enforcement is used to dealing with. He's like Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber). This sort figures out how to carry out their act without government or law enforcement knowing. They really don't exist on the Left either.

The Left simply doesn't get it. If you pi$$ off someone that is moderate to conservative who has means and intellect they will absolutely @$$ rape you in an instant with some horrendous act of violence you never saw coming. They figure it out and then carry it out.
The Left simply can't conceive, for some reason, that individuals are actually capable of any of that. For them the only concept they seem to get is one of collective everything where the individual is nothing but a compliant, passive, slug.
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  #49  
Old 03 Oct 17, 01:32
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TAG....what do you think professionals do as mental exercises? We plan how to execute an attack so we can plan how to prevent, counter, or interrupt an attack. I can say without a doubt that my most terrifying mental exercises haven't involved any firearms at all, just what is readily available at any Harbor Freight (a discount hardware chain).
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  #50  
Old 03 Oct 17, 01:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
No automatic weapons.
Limit clips/magazines to 8 rounds.
Fingerprint/Background check before *any* firearm purchase.
No concealed carry.
Massive PR campaign by NRA to discourage the use of assault weapons of any kind, but ESPECIALLY for home defense.
NRA encourages people to use lever action rifles for home defense.
Massive PR campaign by the POTUS for people to turn in their assault weapons voluntarily.
Massive PR campaign by NRA for people to turn in all but one of their assault weapons.
No silencers.
Massive PR campaign by to discourage use of any caliber bullet > .45
If you can't smoke there, you can't carry a gun there.

The list goes on...

Edit 1: Some modifications after seeing the feedback on this thread.

Eliminate magazines altogether. 5 round clips only for rifles. (For pistols, revolvers only.)
What's in a name? To remove any issue with the term "assault rifle," or "assault weapon," or "assault anything," simply ban ammunition magazines, limit clips to 5 rounds and outlaw any muzzle velocity above 2700 fps.
Nothing will make a difference until a large segment of the population thinks that the cost of all of this is too much to deal with.

Quote:
When a lone gunman opened fire on a concert in Las Vegas, killing at least 58 and injuring more than 500, it marked the 273rd mass shooting in America in the last 275 days.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7979666.html

If these statistics do not make people want a change it is hard to see what will.
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  #51  
Old 03 Oct 17, 01:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
TAG....what do you think professionals do as mental exercises? We plan how to execute an attack so we can plan how to prevent, counter, or interrupt an attack. I can say without a doubt that my most terrifying mental exercises haven't involved any firearms at all, just what is readily available at any Harbor Freight (a discount hardware chain).
I can come up with some really horrifying scenarios. Like:

My mustard gas attack on a New York subway station.

Using a flamethrower in any number of scenarios.

Homemade mortars, artillery, or grenade launchers... Imagine this guy using one of those on that crowd from the roof of the hotel...

How to smuggle in a nuclear weapon...

FAE scenarios.

Like I said, the last people on the planet you want to pi$$ off are the upper middle and middle class that have good educations, and some means, and politically are Centrist to Right of Center. Make them mad and they will absolutely @$$ rape you blind in a nanosecond. They are the sort of people that led our revolution.
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  #52  
Old 03 Oct 17, 01:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
This guy was fairly well off. He owned real estate, had money in stocks, and was doing fairly well for himself. If he wanted a machinegun he had the financial resources to get one and the ammunition for it. No law was going to stop that from happening.

He was, in essence, the most dangerous sort of deviant / radical / terrorist / whatever like that you want to run into. He was reasonably smart, wealthy, and capable of planning. You don't stop this sort of person easily. He's not the sort of person law enforcement is used to dealing with. He's like Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber). This sort figures out how to carry out their act without government or law enforcement knowing. They really don't exist on the Left either.

The Left simply doesn't get it. If you pi$$ off someone that is moderate to conservative who has means and intellect they will absolutely @$$ rape you in an instant with some horrendous act of violence you never saw coming. They figure it out and then carry it out.
The Left simply can't conceive, for some reason, that individuals are actually capable of any of that. For them the only concept they seem to get is one of collective everything where the individual is nothing but a compliant, passive, slug.
So it's all the fault of "The Left " then ?
If some guy has the means and the will to carry out wholesale slaughter then he can do it ? He's only exercising his right to be a murdering bastard ?
Surely you don't mean that.
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  #53  
Old 03 Oct 17, 02:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
So it's all the fault of "The Left " then ?
If some guy has the means and the will to carry out wholesale slaughter then he can do it ? He's only exercising his right to be a murdering bastard ?
Surely you don't mean that.
Oh no, not at all. The Left wouldn't do something like this. This isn't their MO at all. "Lone wolf" attacks are something the non-Left does, particularly the Right and far Right... That is when a crazy isn't the case which is pretty common, even usual, to these events.

So, if this event isn't terrorism (eg., politically motivated) then it's almost certainly the act of a mentally ill person.

If on the other hand, it was terrorism, this guy was almost certainly set off by something most would consider a Leftist action of government. That is a Clive Bundy scenario where he thinks the government wronged him over something and is getting even for it in some deranged fashion.

But, I'd say the mentally ill / crazy scenario is far, far more likely here. This is the University of Texas Clock tower scenario.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 03 Oct 17 at 02:46..
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  #54  
Old 03 Oct 17, 03:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
The anti's do not want the system to work properly. A working system would take some of their steam away from their overall project..... the removal of ALL guns from "the people's" hands.

To me, it boils down to one thing..... I want to have the option to own a gun, or two..... or ten. Exercise the option or not is no one's business at all, including the "bad guys".

GG
I think, it is more complicated than blaming only the "antis".

For example, even the "pros" often seem to be reluctant to have background check for weapons sold in gun shows

Here is another video from the "antis" which shows that this is a problem in many states.



And okay, you may be suspicious about their ultimate goals, but this does not mean that they do not have a point about the current state of background checks.

By the way, according to wiki only 20 states require some background checks for private sales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Quote:
Background checks for private sales

Background check by FFL required

All firearms

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
New York
Nevada
Oregon
Rhode Island
Washington

State-issued permit required

Hawaii
Illinois
Massachusetts
New Jersey

Handguns

Background check by FFL required

Maryland
Pennsylvania

State-issued permit required

Iowa
Michigan
Nebraska
North Carolina
Even the NRA seems to resist universal checks using arguments that to me do not make sense


Last edited by pamak; 03 Oct 17 at 03:55..
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  #55  
Old 03 Oct 17, 04:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambronnne View Post
I'm sorry. You said an unidentified NRA video contradicted my statement that background checks are already required. Now you are pointing out evidence that supports what I said and linking to the federal background check requirements.

Federal law requires the background check. Some states do not require additional checks, but that does not erase the federal requirements.

The cool thing about States is that they have the right to make their own laws and if the people of that state decide they want them changed, they can do so.
They don't have to make laws that satisfy people who don't live there.

So what was your point again?
To remind you what you said, because apparently you do not recall well

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambronnne View Post
We already have background checks and
Felons are not permitted to own weapons.

If a person is mentally ill, they are prohibited from purchasing weapons.
Having to prove you are not mentally ill to purchase a weapon means that we no longer have the presumption of innocence, but rather must prove we are not guilty of mental illness in order to exercise a right recognized by the constitution.

Making the exercise of a constitutional right dependent on a psyche evaluation sounds very Soviet in practice.
If we make the 2nd amendment dependent on a psyche eval, we can do the same with Speech or the exercise of abortion rights. I doubt even the anti-gun crowd would approve of that.
followed by

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambronnne View Post
Sorry, I made the mistake of relying on Illinois law rather than an NRA video.
I feel so stupid.
In other words, you never said anything about any federal requirements. You just talked about your state and how IT implements such requirements while you wanted to ignore the NRA video which mentioned the issue of how the federal requirements are undermined by other states.

And I did not say that the NRA contradicted your statement that background checks are already required. Have the decency to at least quote me correctly:

This is what I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pamak View Post
Well, the NRA video contradicts much of what you say about the background checks.

Now, you chose to conclude that the word "much" meant that I was claiming that it contradicts your statement that background checks are not required. But this was your interpretation, and as usual, you are wrong. I was actually talking about the effectiveness of such background checks based on claims of yours, such as,

"...If a person is mentally ill, they are prohibited from purchasing weapons" (bold mine for emphasis)

As for the necessity of federal checks, it seems you are, again, wrong. See the previous post, and how such checks are not included for many private sales in many US states. And remember from your elementary school geography that Illinois is NOT the US. So, do not use Illinois as a typical example to describe the general situation in the US...

Last edited by pamak; 03 Oct 17 at 04:34..
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  #56  
Old 03 Oct 17, 04:42
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You want to restrict guns have a constitutional convention otherwise you are simply pushing for the abolition of the legal process and mob rule.

Progressives do not believe in the individual and by extension individual rights. The reason we are a republic and not a democracy is because democracies are tyrannies of the majority. That is why Obama rejected the law and turned the IRS and NSA into political tools and had the least transparent administration in history. It's just one step away from the USSR's secret police.

The millions of bodies collectivist gave us in the twentieth century are proof that systems based on group identity are lethal. By any means necessary is the collectivist's core psychological orientation. They simply are incapable of rising to the intellectual level required to understand that the process determines the outcome and emotionally mature enough to realize that treating every flaw in a system as an emergency that requires immediate remediation is going to result in unintended consequences perhaps worse than the problem they set out to address.

Constitutions and legal processes are simply impediments to "justice" for the collectivist. Unfortunately it's a question of order by law. Without legal process order is impossible and justice an illusion.
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  #57  
Old 03 Oct 17, 05:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Of all the ignorant threads this one ranks up near the top. What is your definition of a assault weapon? You know that automatic weapons are illegal, right?

Oh I know, its black and scary with attachment points.

As far as regulating clip size, that was struck down by SCOTUS recently.

I got a better idea, either change the BOR or move to a country that doesn't allow civilian ownership of firearms.

I know, you just want to violate the constitution and the BOR.

Anybody who's got a shop can make their own firearms without any registration.

Silencers are illegal as well.

Background checks are required to buy even a shotgun...

Like I said, ignorant thread.
Magazine size not clip.
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  #58  
Old 03 Oct 17, 06:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamak View Post
To remind you what you said, because apparently you do not recall well



followed by



In other words, you never said anything about any federal requirements. You just talked about your state and how IT implements such requirements while you wanted to ignore the NRA video which mentioned the issue of how the federal requirements are undermined by other states.

And I did not say that the NRA contradicted your statement that background checks are already required. Have the decency to at least quote me correctly:

This is what I said:




Now, you chose to conclude that the word "much" meant that I was claiming that it contradicts your statement that background checks are not required. But this was your interpretation, and as usual, you are wrong. I was actually talking about the effectiveness of such background checks based on claims of yours, such as,

"...If a person is mentally ill, they are prohibited from purchasing weapons" (bold mine for emphasis)

As for the necessity of federal checks, it seems you are, again, wrong. See the previous post, and how such checks are not included for many private sales in many US states. And remember from your elementary school geography that Illinois is NOT the US. So, do not use Illinois as a typical example to describe the general situation in the US...


Your point was to try and prove I was wrong when I said we already have background checks.
It is emphatically true that we have background checks.
I identified Illinois, but did not mention federal requirements. The fact that there are also federal requirements makes my statement correct (again) and your effort to suggest otherwise, misleading.

I note you claim that Illinois is not typical of US states, but provide no proof of that claim. Well done.
I note you say you were addressing my claim that mentally ill people are prohibited from purchasing guns, but fail to address it in any substantive way other than to claim I'm wrong. If I'm wrong I suspect that you would have some evidence, yet you do not.

The absence of requirements at the State level doesn't erase the requirements at the federal level.
There is no regulation of private transfers, but that is true of all private transfers, not just guns. If I give my kid a car, there are no laws involved, nor taxes collected.

Again, forgive me for relying on actual laws, rather than what an unidentified NRA video said.
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  #59  
Old 03 Oct 17, 13:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRV Ron View Post
Like the 38,000+ killed by cars each year, many by drunken or drugged drivers and the stupid that are playing with their smart phones?
Exactly. You'll note that we have serious laws about who can drive, traffic laws, restrictions on the types of cars, etc, etc.

Can you imagine how many deaths there would be if automobiles were as uncontrolled as cars?
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Old 03 Oct 17, 13:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
The Left simply can't conceive, for some reason, that individuals are actually capable of any of that. For them the only concept they seem to get is one of collective everything where the individual is nothing but a compliant, passive, slug.
Don't be ridiculous.

Guns are simply outrageously dangerous. We need better controls. That's all there is to it.
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