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  #16  
Old 02 Oct 17, 15:07
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First off getting a LEGAL fully automatic firearm is not impossible but it is quite involved. You must apply for a license to have a fully automatic weapon and pass BATF scrutiny. Then you have to purchase one of the relatively few LEGAL fully automatic weapons available here. I think that this means it has to be made, purchased and registered before 1986. This means there are a limited number of LEGAL ones available. They are pricey. I have looked at prices and they range from $6000 - $200000 for one. I could not justify the price for something to just use occasionally for fun. However a skilled shooter can shoot semi-auto pretty fast and be much more accurate than someone that is spraying and praying on full auto. Plus they make special stocks that emulate fully auto fire (bump stocks). I have bump fired a gun and while it is fun you have no accuracy to speak of and burn through ammo real fast, not for me. I get more satisfaction being able to hit what I am shooting at then just spraying an area with lead.
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Last edited by slick24; 02 Oct 17 at 15:13..
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  #17  
Old 02 Oct 17, 15:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
There are things that would help...
Banning old people. If they're not zapping you with automatic weapons, then they're driving like maniacs, sucking off the public tit, jacking up the heat in summer, or boring the hell out of you with their stories.

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  #18  
Old 02 Oct 17, 16:18
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Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
That won't help much in the Vegas shooting. You can smoke just about anywhere in Vegas.
True. But there are shootings in other places besides Las Vegas.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 16:25
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Originally Posted by slick24 View Post
However a skilled shooter can shoot semi-auto pretty fast and be much more accurate than someone that is spraying and praying on full auto.
It would also help if the NRA would launch a massive PR campaign discouraging the use/manufacture of semi-auto rifles that have a muzzle velocity > 2700fps and have large capacity clips/magazines.

It would also help if the NRA would launch a massive PR campaign discouraging the ownership of any gun larger than a .22 and a muzzle velocity over 1200fps for anyone < 16yrs old.
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  #20  
Old 02 Oct 17, 16:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
It would also help if the NRA would launch a massive PR campaign discouraging the use/manufacture of semi-auto rifles that have a muzzle velocity > 2700fps and have large capacity clips/magazines.

It would also help if the NRA would launch a massive PR campaign discouraging the ownership of any gun larger than a .22 and a muzzle velocity over 1200fps for anyone < 16yrs old.
Considering the professionalism exhibited by the very agencies that are tasked to enforce these various bans, the very last thing that should be done is to prohibit private citizens from possessing firearms.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 16:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
It might have stopped the guy in Vegas.
His being caught bringing firearms into the hotel might have stopped him. Being struck down by lightning from God on his way there would have stopped him. This sort of nonsense is called Affirming the Consequent. It's the coulda, woulda, shoulda... sort of argument. "If only we had..."

Quote:
The idea is not that to come up with foolproof solutions for all possible scenarios. The idea is to move things away from "Incredibly dangerous weapons are pervasive in our society and easy to obtain and use.." to "Incredibly dangerous weapons are difficult to obtain and or use in our society and are discouraged by everyone."
It isn't the weapons that are dangerous, it's the crazy, insane, hate driven people behind them that are.
This is the insanity of what you are proposing:



That's where the UK government's at. Do you see the UK having cut down on this sort thing happening there? What you want has a track record of nothing but failure.

Do you really want us to believe we're safer because government makes a rule that you have register your tableware in the off chance you might go insane and stab someone with a table knife?

Quote:
An automatic weapon with a large capacity magazine firing bullets with extremely high muzzle velocity is an incredibly dangerous weapon that serves no useful civilian purpose and should be banned by federal law for everything except military use.
Please give us a list of every conceivable civilian use. What if I'm a collector? I simply want that rare historical machinegun in my collection because it's rare. Or, should be ban owning rare art too...?
That's one example of where you are wrong.
You simply gloss over possible uses to get to the conclusion you want. Trampling other's Rights and freedoms is common on the Left.

Quote:
The NRA should be on board with that.
Every sane gun owner should be on board with that.
Everyone that respects the 2nd Amendment should be on board with that.
No, they shouldn't. The more government restricts people's rights and freedoms the more they become slaves of the government. I don't want that and am willing to accept some risks in my life as a consequence.
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  #22  
Old 02 Oct 17, 17:21
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Do we have to go through this crap again and again and again and again and again and again.
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  #23  
Old 02 Oct 17, 17:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
No automatic weapons.
Semi auto firearms can be modified to full auto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
Limit clips/magazines to 8 rounds.
Shooter can always reload.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
Fingerprint/Background check before *any* firearm purchase.
Would protect us against established criminals but not sudden shooters like the most recent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
No concealed carry.
Would be ignored by the shooter anyway. Did you know murder is against the law too?

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Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
Massive PR campaign by NRA to discourage the use of assault weapons of any kind, but ESPECIALLY for home defense.
Assault weapons aren't good home defense weapons anyway so moot issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
NRA encourages people to use lever action rifles for home defense.
You got your knowledge of guns from playing Lethal Enforcers didn't you? Any kind of long arm is less than ideal in home defense because you are in a confined indoor space. A pistol is preferable. And would meet your standards anyway.

Lever action rifles....

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
Massive PR campaign by the POTUS for people to turn in their assault weapons voluntarily.
Works great for law abiding citizens but crooks won't volunteer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
Massive PR campaign by NRA for people to turn in all but one of their assault weapons.
Oh, now we can keep one? I thought you wanted them all.

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Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
No silencers.
Never used by mass shooters anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
Massive PR campaign by to discourage use of any caliber bullet > .45
AR 15 uses a round smaller than .45. Even a .22 can be lethal.

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Originally Posted by armor11 View Post
If you can't smoke there, you can't carry a gun there.
Lots of mass shootings occur in gun free zones.

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The list goes on...
And is just as irrelevant.
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  #24  
Old 02 Oct 17, 18:01
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That's belted or drum ammo. listen to how long the bursts are...
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  #25  
Old 02 Oct 17, 18:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Of all the ignorant threads this one ranks up near the top. What is your definition of a assault weapon? You know that automatic weapons are illegal, right?

Oh I know, its black and scary with attachment points.

As far as regulating clip size, that was struck down by SCOTUS recently.

I got a better idea, either change the BOR or move to a country that doesn't allow civilian ownership of firearms.

I know, you just want to violate the constitution and the BOR.

Anybody who's got a shop can make their own firearms without any registration.

Silencers are illegal as well.

Background checks are required to buy even a shotgun...

Like I said, ignorant thread.
Grow up man ! Learn how to talk to others whom you disagree with in a respectful manner.
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  #26  
Old 02 Oct 17, 18:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthwys View Post
So to be fair an Assault Rifle is a firearm capable of select-fire, meaning it can be switched from (usually) single-shot semi-automatic, Three round burst*, and full automatic fire.

*not all select-fire modes incorporate 3-round burst capability.

Generally speaking no-one in civilian life "needs" a select-fire rifle. That doesn't mean that it's not fun to shoot them though. There are people that can speed fire an AR-15 (Armalite Rifle NOT Automatic Rifle) which is semi-automatic only, almost as quickly as a select-fire rifle on full auto. The accuracy isn't much better, and you're not going to ever get good accuracy from a full-auto cycle in any case... ever.

Fully-Automatic fire was intended to allow for fire-suppression in combat, basically to keep the opponents heads' down and minimize their return fire while your own elements maneuver into better positions.

It's not useful for anything else, but it is fun as hell to do at an approved range.
Let me say this to your point,

I would hear out anyone whom wants to make it illegal for citizens to own the sorts of guns used by the shooter in Las Vegas.

Specifically a shotgun, pistol or bolt action rifle like my 22. rifle is imo enough for home defense. Anything else I would consider banning the public from purchasing.
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  #27  
Old 02 Oct 17, 18:45
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I was never into the gun culture, but I follow the debate.

Any comments about this NRA video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaUaUudFk0E






And yes, I do understand the complexity of the "mental illness" issue (think of veterans with PTSD) or the issue of government abuse. The latter is less of a concern for me since such decisions come (or at least should come) from courts (civilian) after consulting medical professionals and not from the government (as long as you are not affiliated with the Armed Forces, I guess). Historically, much of the mental illness law abuses has come from relatives of elder people who were able to use such laws for financial gains.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 18:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
That's belted or drum ammo. listen to how long the bursts are...
This guy built this himself, as he describes, and it is legal. Imagine it with a much bigger ammunition feed than that 15 to 20 round magazine he's using.



No, that in .30 or such would do what we are listening to. It isn't hard to get a good ROF even with semi-auto.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 18:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamak View Post
I was never into the gun culture, but I follow the debate.

Any comments about this NRA video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaUaUudFk0E






And yes, I do understand the complexity of the "mental illness" issue (think of veterans with PTSD) or the issue of government abuse. The latter is less of a concern for me since such decisions come (or at least should come) from courts (civilian) after consulting medical professionals and not from the government (as long as you are not affiliated with the Armed Forces, I guess). Historically, much of the mental illness law abuses has come from relatives of elder people who were able to use such laws for financial gains.
It's a good video. The NRA is all about responsible gun ownership. And we really need to get the nutters into institutions.

As far as ptsd goes there's programs that are helping with it. Don't stigmatize our Vets please.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 19:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
It's a good video. The NRA is all about responsible gun ownership. And we really need to get the nutters into institutions.

As far as ptsd goes there's programs that are helping with it. Don't stigmatize our Vets please.

Ironically, your response shows the biggest problem of stigmatizing "mental illness" in general. My concern is exactly not to stigmatize people and take away their constitutional rights just because they have "mental illness." And this applies not only to veterans with PTSD, but to many other people who have some mental issues.
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