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  #46  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Dozens of ways ?

Give us 3 please .

There is only ONE such way , but the politicians have no guts,as always : hang every one who uses a fire arm to commit a crime . Even he is a minor .

The problem is not people having guns, but people committing crimes .

The first murderer on earth had no gun : Cain had no gun to kill his brother . Jack the Ripper also had no gun .

People with guns are not committing more crimes than people without guns.
Three ways off the top of my head:

1) Massively intrusive government overwatch on borders and citizens.

2) Highly extravagant control measures for firearms, owners and producers, combined with draconian punishments.

3) Widespread and costly social and educational programs combined with economic reforms (along with the removal of undesirables who cannot match up to the new society).

I didn't even get into my full-on 1984 examples, or the true "Cultural Revolution" plans meant to redefine what it is to be an American (or a citizen). But again, since "gun control" in this nation is arguing about clip sizes and arguing about such pettiness as whether or not we should be more tolerant of automatic weapons, it's no surprise that people just assume there isn't a solution.
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  #47  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambronnne View Post
The fact that he had a gun did not cause him to want to kill people, but it made him more dangerous in that regard.
I suspect that he is mentally ill. His brother was quoted as saying he "snapped".

We all agree that mentally ill people shouldn't have guns, but the problem is that we don't know who all the mentally ill people are.
We can't force prospective gun buyers to prove they are not mentally ill and we can't force people to submit to exams without hearings that protect their rights.

We are all innocent until proven guilty so the authorities have no right to force us to prove we are mentally healthy prior to exercising aright recognized by the Constitutional.
Actually his brother said they do not know how he could do this and he have snapped. According to them he was not mentally ill.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/las-v...130836855.html

Quote:
"He was just a guy. Something happened, he snapped,"
he Central Florida-based brother of accused Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock said he was "completely dumbfounded" by the incident.

Eric Paddock, who lives east of Orlando, said in a brief interview that he has made a statement to police.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...002-story.html

Quote:
“We are completely dumbfounded,” he said. “We can’t understand what happened.”
Quote:
“We have absolutely no idea whatsoever,” Eric Paddock said. “I can’t imagine. When you guys find out why this happened, let us know. I have no idea whatsoever.”
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  #48  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:04
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I see : to murder 5 people is not that bad as to murder 50 people .

The value of a human live can be expressed in numbers .
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  #49  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:07
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Cool the queen pooped yesterday...ISIS claims credit..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Meanwhile, ISIS has claimed responsibility for the shooting.
seriously?
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  #50  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:10
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Don't know if you can call it "seriously" but some statement to that effect was released apparently.

Quote:
In a second statement, Isis claimed the gunman "converted to Islam several months ago".

The claim, which cannot be independently verified, came days after Isis released a speech purporting to be from its leader.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7978941.html

Then again as you point out, there isn't really anything they *don't* claim responsibility for.
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  #51  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambronnne View Post
The fact that he had a gun did not cause him to want to kill people, but it made him more dangerous in that regard.
I suspect that he is mentally ill. His brother was quoted as saying he "snapped".

We all agree that mentally ill people shouldn't have guns, but the problem is that we don't know who all the mentally ill people are.
We can't force prospective gun buyers to prove they are not mentally ill and we can't force people to submit to exams without hearings that protect their rights.

We are all innocent until proven guilty so the authorities have no right to force us to prove we are mentally healthy prior to exercising aright recognized by the Constitutional.
It's also dangerous thinking if we allow being mentally ill to be a method of dividing us from a Constitutional right like bearing arms, when such a definition is very fluid and subjective to its time in history. After all, there was an age where learned men diagnoses slaves as being mentally ill for wanting to be free of the plantation. It isn't too far a stretch to imagine certain "undesirable" aspects of humanity to be labeled as illness to restrict said rights. It's happened in the past, and worse, with the current trend toward guilt by association, all it takes is a small minority within any select "group" to act out to prompt a fearful public to cast them all in together as being cut from the same cloth.

But then, that also kinda leads us back to the usual "what's the point of the 2nd amendment?" arguments and, to be frank, this is already a road we've gone done a million times before (as a nation, I mean).

The moment this man squeezed the trigger, the righteous on both sides of gun control began getting fired up for another status quo clash of ideology. A bunch of zealous fools on either side of a fractious issue eager to jump into the breach once more.

America decided long ago that we were fine with the occasional mass murder. It's just part of doing business. Nobody wants to front the bill to fix it, both figuratively and quite literally - and again, that goes again both sides of the issue.

My crystal ball already predicts lots of wailing and railing and gnashing of teeth, resulting in a status quo result with, perhaps, a superficial law layered on top. It's not like we haven't seen this before.
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  #52  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
Three ways off the top of my head:

1) Massively intrusive government overwatch on borders and citizens.

2) Highly extravagant control measures for firearms, owners and producers, combined with draconian punishments.

3) Widespread and costly social and educational programs combined with economic reforms (along with the removal of undesirables who cannot match up to the new society).

I didn't even get into my full-on 1984 examples, or the true "Cultural Revolution" plans meant to redefine what it is to be an American (or a citizen). But again, since "gun control" in this nation is arguing about clip sizes and arguing about such pettiness as whether or not we should be more tolerant of automatic weapons, it's no surprise that people just assume there isn't a solution.
None of them will have any effect ,because they start from the wrong assumption that if there are less guns, there will be less killings ,and this is not so : homicides with guns are only a small part of the number of homicides .And, if a would-be murderer has no gun, he will use something else .

The first killings of the Jews happened by guns, and, when there were some problems (the sensitivity of the SS was hurt), one switched over to the gas chambers .

The terrorist who murdered 2 people in Marseille yesterday had no gun . But that did not prevented him to murder two people .

The murderers of 9/11 had also no gun .
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  #53  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Don't know if you can call it "seriously" but some statement to that effect was released apparently.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7978941.html

Then again as you point out, there isn't really anything they *don't* claim responsibility for.
Not the defeat of AA Gent .
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  #54  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
None of them will have any effect ,because they start from the wrong assumption that if there are less guns, there will be less killings ,and this is not so : homicides with guns are only a small part of the number of homicides .And, if a would-be murderer has no gun, he will use something else .

The first killings of the Jews happened by guns, and, when there were some problems (the sensitivity of the SS was hurt), one switched over to the gas chambers .

The terrorist who murdered 2 people in Marseille yesterday had no gun . But that did not prevented him to murder two people .

The murderers of 9/11 had also no gun .
In the US? If that is what you're talking about then your silly.
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  #55  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
None of them will have any effect ,because they start from the wrong assumption that if there are less guns, there will be less killings ,and this is not so : homicides with guns are only a small part of the number of homicides .And, if a would-be murderer has no gun, he will use something else .

The first killings of the Jews happened by guns, and, when there were some problems (the sensitivity of the SS was hurt), one switched over to the gas chambers .

The terrorist who murdered 2 people in Marseille yesterday had no gun . But that did not prevented him to murder two people .

The murderers of 9/11 had also no gun .
When your very first sentence is that off the mark, I wonder if you were quoting my post by mistake?
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  #56  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Actually his brother said they do not know how he could do this and he have snapped. According to them he was not mentally ill.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/las-v...130836855.html



he Central Florida-based brother of accused Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock said he was "completely dumbfounded" by the incident.

Eric Paddock, who lives east of Orlando, said in a brief interview that he has made a statement to police.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...002-story.html
He was not mentally ill : he was a criminal . There is a big difference between both, although the lawyers of the criminals (birds of a feather flock together) try to save the neck of their clients (otherwise they would not make money) by saying that they are mentally ill : they are not mentally ill, neither are the lawyers .
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  #57  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
He was not mentally ill : he was a criminal . There is a big difference between both, although the lawyers of the criminals (birds of a feather flock together) try to save the neck of their clients (otherwise they would not make money) by saying that they are mentally ill : they are not mentally ill, neither are the lawyers .
I did not say he was mentally ill.

The mentally ill defense is used in almost no court cases for murder. Seldom succeeds and when it does the person can spend more time in a ward for the criminally insane than they would for the actual crime.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 10:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
None of them will have any effect ,because they start from the wrong assumption that if there are less guns, there will be less killings ,and this is not so : homicides with guns are only a small part of the number of homicides .And, if a would-be murderer has no gun, he will use something else .

The first killings of the Jews happened by guns, and, when there were some problems (the sensitivity of the SS was hurt), one switched over to the gas chambers .

The terrorist who murdered 2 people in Marseille yesterday had no gun . But that did not prevented him to murder two people .

The murderers of 9/11 had also no gun .
as usual, factless

https://twitter.com/TheDweck/status/...364800/photo/1
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  #59  
Old 02 Oct 17, 10:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Well perhaps the fact that the shooter had access to a gun had just a bit to do with over 50 innocent people being dead.
Personally I believe that retirees should be processed for the valuable compounds possessed in their bodies, much as we once rendered dead and dieing horses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Most Americans don't want to accept that concept.

Remember people kill people, not guns Why a knife could have killed and injured just as many, from the 33rd floor as a rifle.
Two largest mass murders in US history were perpetrated by a book of matches, a can of gasoline, and a couple of box cutters.
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Old 02 Oct 17, 10:33
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64 is young for most retirees?
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