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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #16  
Old 29 Sep 17, 07:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Everyone has a different take on certain groups. Some dislike Hindus, others dislike Muslims...this may never change

What would you do about the laws in Saudi though? Like do you think Muslim women should be able to drive?

Or perhaps you hate(well hate is a strong word perhaps you dislike) Muslims so much that any topic which uses the word Muslim or Islam would have you react in a negative manner against Muslims...in other words I ask kindly do you think Muslims should be put in camps and eliminated and it an honest question...your own postings force the last question to be asked.

Human rights have been around since the ancient ages..IE Cyrus the Great and the Cyrus Cylinder
The laws in KSA are not my business, neither should they be yours .
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  #17  
Old 29 Sep 17, 08:03
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Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
The laws in KSA are not my business, neither should they be yours .
If that is the case you should apply the same rules to the US.
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  #18  
Old 29 Sep 17, 09:26
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Other countries in the area years ago made it legal for women to drive thus fending off international criticism and then made sure that none passed the driving test. Saudi may yet adopt the same approach. An interesting factor that leads me to think this may be the case - it's illegal in Saudi for a woman to be alone in a car with a man who is not her husband or a close blood relative so getting driving lessons may be difficult.

Its been a while since I drove there but standards were horrific. Like many an Italian driver Saudi drivers were oblivious to any of the traffic rules (and bereft of any sense of courtesy to other drivers) but, unlike many Italians who at least are technically competent in handling a car, they were not very good at the basics of driving - the worst of both worlds.
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  #19  
Old 29 Sep 17, 11:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
If that is the case you should apply the same rules to the US.
no : because the US are influencing what is happening in Europe : example : US intervention in Libya,ordered by Obama,resulted in the mass immigration of suspicious persons in Europe .

The domestic policy of KSA, Birma, Venezuela,Congo and other Third World countries is not my business, nor should it be the business of the US .The inclination of the US politicians (not only Democrats) and media to classify other countries as good or bad following their domestic policicy is suicidal and US have paid and will pay dearly for this tendency of bringing western morality in international policy, where it has no place .All this is founded on the curious conviction that the world can not survive half free and half slave (to paraphrase Lincoln),or that US must fight to make the world save for democracy (to paraphrase Wilson).

Of course, Obama does not care about the disaster he has caused in Europe : the only thing that's interesting him are the bribe $ he received from Wall Street when he retired .
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  #20  
Old 29 Sep 17, 11:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
no : because the US are influencing what is happening in Europe : example : US intervention in Libya,ordered by Obama,resulted in the mass immigration of suspicious persons in Europe .

The domestic policy of KSA, Birma, Venezuela,Congo and other Third World countries is not my business, nor should it be the business of the US .The inclination of the US politicians (not only Democrats) and media to classify other countries as good or bad following their domestic policicy is suicidal and US have paid and will pay dearly for this tendency of bringing western morality in international policy, where it has no place .All this is founded on the curious conviction that the world can not survive half free and half slave (to paraphrase Lincoln),or that US must fight to make the world save for democracy (to paraphrase Wilson).

Of course, Obama does not care about the disaster he has caused in Europe : the only thing that's interesting him are the bribe $ he received from Wall Street when he retired .
Interestingly Wilson did not practice what he preached - while he may have promoted democracy overseas he was opposed to it in the US.
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  #21  
Old 29 Sep 17, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
Interestingly Wilson did not practice what he preached - while he may have promoted democracy overseas he was opposed to it in the US.
Well, he was a Democrat whose device was :listen to what I say , but don't look on what I do .

Adold Barnes ( I know : a quintessential goose-stepper) warned for the tendency to interfere in the domestic policies of countries who are not a threat to the US with the words : eternal war for eternal peace .

Even Trump is falling in this trap with sanctions for Venezuela, because the local SoB was violating democracy .

For KSA : why should we jubilate if the women of KSA receive the right to drive a car ? Makes this such women more friendly or more hostile to the West ?

Last edited by ljadw; 29 Sep 17 at 13:38..
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  #22  
Old 29 Sep 17, 20:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Why should it be islamophobic to say that the notion of human rights does not exist in the Islam : most Muslims consider human rights as something strange , that is imposed on them by the west .

The world has survived for thousands of years without the notion of human rights, and probably within a few generations, this notion will disappear, and it will be business as usual .
Ive been considering this for sometime. The legacy of the western enlightenment is a blip in what is an otherwise illiberal social history. It has perhaps a few decades of life left in it.
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  #23  
Old 30 Sep 17, 03:46
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Women can now drive to their own floggings. Congratulations...
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  #24  
Old 30 Sep 17, 21:35
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Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Mr Jackson , your last paragraph is an insult to all my fellow citizens killed in the Bataclan .
Stop your propaganda .Stick to your weird polls.At least ,that's funny ,not displaced like this thread.
Your post is selfish and makes french people look very arrogant. There is no group, whether a so called race or religion that is immune to criticism or that is inherently worse then another so called race or religion(including Atheism)

Your post makes no sense, same with your continued attacks against me. Attack Isil and third reich supporters not the people saying Jihad means to fight isil, not those who in Iraq and Syria say Jihad means to fight ISIL.
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  #25  
Old 30 Sep 17, 21:37
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Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
The laws in KSA are not my business, neither should they be yours .
Well friend your many postings on Islam and Muslim majority countries shows you have a lot more to say on the subject.
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  #26  
Old 01 Oct 17, 06:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Your post is selfish and makes french people look very arrogant. There is no group, whether a so called race or religion that is immune to criticism or that is inherently worse then another so called race or religion(including Atheism)

Your post makes no sense, same with your continued attacks against me. Attack Isil and third reich supporters not the people saying Jihad means to fight isil, not those who in Iraq and Syria say Jihad means to fight ISIL.
The Jihad against ISIS exist only in your imagination .

ISIS had only success because of the unwillingness of the average Muslim and of the Western governments to fight against ISIS .
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  #27  
Old 18 Oct 17, 21:03
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As mentioned it's a pathetic diversion, KSA is an apartheid state far worse than what South Africa was.
Saudi women are no less bigoted or racist than their men, now they will drive too ! Great more suicide bombers in training
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Old 19 Oct 17, 02:00
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Women can now drive to their own floggings. Congratulations...
Only if they are escorted by a male relative. Otherwise, they need to Uber......with a male relative.
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  #29  
Old 20 Oct 17, 11:32
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Originally Posted by nastle View Post
As mentioned it's a pathetic diversion, KSA is an apartheid state far worse than what South Africa was.
Saudi women are no less bigoted or racist than their men, now they will drive too ! Great more suicide bombers in training


We can both criticize the governments of countries we disagree with, in my case Israel and Saudi Arabia among other perhaps in your cause Saudi Arabi and some others...but the bottom line is that in this case Saudi Arabia is an ally of the USA.. Donald Trump has got along very very well with Saudi leadership, more so then Obama has. Trump was even allowed to bring a famous country music artist to Saudi Arabia..Toby Keith a man whom plays songs that praise drinking alcohol. Also Saudi Arabia is not a apartheid state because most of the population of Saudi Arabia is Arab...If say a few Chinese folks ruled Saudi Arabia then Saudi would be in a apartheid situation but its not the case. The issue is the Saudi gov has not done enough to make Saudi a free country even though the Saudi gov would say Saudi is a free country.


But perhaps biggest of all, Trumps first middle eastern visit was Saudi Arabia...so to iljadws point its Saudi Arabia that has payed the United States hundreds of billions of dollars and not all mid eastern countries pay the US $$$...some Middle eastern countries are given money by the USA for practically nothing in return. So wrt Saudi Arabia this is a country that has payed the US companies billions of dollars, thereby making many Americans very wealthy.

The US UK and Russia in other words the worlds major powers have the military might to overthrow any gov of the world..but this route seems like one that can be avoided...the question would be is it worth it to hope that countries with any level of injustice can change in time? After WW2 many people had doubts about Germany changing, considering that Germany was far greater a threat and far stronger and more organized that any single Muslim majority country of today save Turkey and perhaps Egypt. The things that Germans did to innocents, there is no comparing any of this to what occurs in Saudi Arabia or the other middle eastern countries of today. There is ISIL, but ISIL is tiny in comparison to the threat the Third Reich posed to Europe and the world.

Of course the US was also involved in a major world war against Germany where as today the US is allied to the GCC countries and Israel for example. So the difference between Germany of the WW2 era and the middle eastern countries of today that have unjust laws is that the middle eastern countries of today are allies with the USA. And what man can stomach another middle eastern war for the purpose of bringing freedom to the middle east?

Folks like you and I, and the others itt can point out any injustice of the middle east, but its up to the leadership of the USA and other free and honorable Christian European countries to help bring true freedom to the middle east. We can try and do this in a diplomatic and gentlemen like matter, it may take time but it seems like the better option compared to having the USA become isolationist or forcing the ME governments to change their ways.
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Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 20 Oct 17 at 11:42..
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