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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > The Middle East

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The Middle East Asia Minor, the Arab Mahgreb, and the Persian Gulf to include tensions between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Terrorist organizations and Iran.

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  #1  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:26
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Saudi allows Women to Drive-Thanks Donald J Trump

I find that Trump influenced this recent historic decision in Saudi Arabia. Remember folks Trump and Co visited Saudi Arabia a few months back where Trump gave a speech respecting Islam and it values but also urging Middle eastern governments to improve. So now today we see Saudi Arabia make a change. And I cite Trump as part of why this positive change occurred. In Saudi many honorable Arab men and women are out there campaigning for freedom saying Jihad and Islam teaches to help the poor, that all men are created equal, and that many of todays Muslim majority governments haven't a clue how Muhammad and Early Muslims lived nor how Sharia law works. It takes a robot to repeat the same taking points as ISIL members do. After all no one out there would treat Third Reich talking points on Jews as being an indicator of how all European Christians feel about Jews. So anyone out there saying hey ISIL is just doing what Muhammad was doing, thats like Hitler saying modern day Jews are just doing what their ancestors did you know usury , attacks on Christian kids etc etc.

In order to anger and defeat the ISIL mindset one must say Jihad means to fight ISIL. During WW2 Christianity was utilized in the newspapers and by leading voices to inspire the people to work hard both at home and on the battlefront. And now today in Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east Islam is being utilized to inspire people to work hard at home and on the battlefront. All throughout Syria and Iraq many Muslims have teamend with Christians to fight ISIL. But also some middle eastern governments which are allied to the USA, such as Saudi Arabia clearly have unjust law laws of which Muslims are saying go against the values of Islam. But today a massive step forward was taken in Saudi, the Muslim voices saying Islam means to teach equality and fight ISIL have won and now will surely continue to win wrt bringing interfaith marriage and Churches to Saudi Arabia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/w...e.html?mcubz=1.
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Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 26 Sep 17 at 16:31..
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  #2  
Old 27 Sep 17, 06:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
I find that Trump influenced this recent historic decision in Saudi Arabia. Remember folks Trump and Co visited Saudi Arabia a few months back where Trump gave a speech respecting Islam and it values but also urging Middle eastern governments to improve. So now today we see Saudi Arabia make a change. And I cite Trump as part of why this positive change occurred. In Saudi many honorable Arab men and women are out there campaigning for freedom saying Jihad and Islam teaches to help the poor, that all men are created equal, and that many of todays Muslim majority governments haven't a clue how Muhammad and Early Muslims lived nor how Sharia law works. It takes a robot to repeat the same taking points as ISIL members do. After all no one out there would treat Third Reich talking points on Jews as being an indicator of how all European Christians feel about Jews. So anyone out there saying hey ISIL is just doing what Muhammad was doing, thats like Hitler saying modern day Jews are just doing what their ancestors did you know usury , attacks on Christian kids etc etc.

In order to anger and defeat the ISIL mindset one must say Jihad means to fight ISIL. During WW2 Christianity was utilized in the newspapers and by leading voices to inspire the people to work hard both at home and on the battlefront. And now today in Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east Islam is being utilized to inspire people to work hard at home and on the battlefront. All throughout Syria and Iraq many Muslims have teamend with Christians to fight ISIL. But also some middle eastern governments which are allied to the USA, such as Saudi Arabia clearly have unjust law laws of which Muslims are saying go against the values of Islam. But today a massive step forward was taken in Saudi, the Muslim voices saying Islam means to teach equality and fight ISIL have won and now will surely continue to win wrt bringing interfaith marriage and Churches to Saudi Arabia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/w...e.html?mcubz=1.
Nothing to do with Trump its because the Saudis are coming under scrutiny over likely human rights violations and war crimes in relation to Yemen - its a diversionary tactic - they've done it before last time it was relaxing the guardianship rules for women. It will probably be welcomed by many middle class Saudi men as the ban meant they had to do things like the school run and picking up the shopping. It's the ultra religious authorities who will fret over it
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  #3  
Old 27 Sep 17, 14:28
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Certain people are welcoming a dead sparrow : muslim women who can drive are not less dangerous for us than muslim women who are not allowed to drive .

And there are no human rights violations in the ME, because in the Islam there are no human rights .

Human rights are an invention from western (especially US )philosophers and politicians.
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  #4  
Old 27 Sep 17, 16:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Certain people are welcoming a dead sparrow : muslim women who can drive are not less dangerous for us than muslim women who are not allowed to drive .

And there are no human rights violations in the ME, because in the Islam there are no human rights .

Human rights are an invention from western (especially US )philosophers and politicians.
And this explains this forum in a nutshell;

Marky makes a valid point about the motivation for this decision, which makes a fair bit of sense, and is met by a kneejerk islamophobic reaction - you really couldn't make it up.

For my 2p worth, I think the Saudis doing a little misdirection has far more credibility than someone actually listening to Trump, and to tar all Muslims over the actions of a few nutters is unhelpful at best.
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  #5  
Old 27 Sep 17, 16:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ace View Post
And this explains this forum in a nutshell;

Marky makes a valid point about the motivation for this decision, which makes a fair bit of sense, and is met by a kneejerk islamophobic reaction - you really couldn't make it up.

For my 2p worth, I think the Saudis doing a little misdirection has far more credibility than someone actually listening to Trump, and to tar all Muslims over the actions of a few nutters is unhelpful at best.
Well its long been obvious that ljadw is a Russian neo facist troll whose postings are boringly predictable
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Old 27 Sep 17, 16:42
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One is always the fascist of someone else . Especially if one is not kissing the shoes of the Islam lobby .

You are jubilating : KSA women have the right to drive,this proves that the Islam is becoming liberal .

This proves nothing . And even if it is proving that the Islam is becoming more moderate, that does not prove that this Islam is less dangerous for us . The successors of Stalin were more moderate than him, but they were as ,or more dangerous for us : see the 1962 missile crisis .

Women have even more rights in Iran than in KSA, but Iran is a deadly threat for us and KSA not .

All your posts prove that you know nothing about the Islam ,but that you are looking to the Islam through liberal glasses hoping that the Islam will become what you want it to become : a liberal democracy .
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Old 27 Sep 17, 16:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ace View Post
And this explains this forum in a nutshell;

Marky makes a valid point about the motivation for this decision, which makes a fair bit of sense, and is met by a kneejerk islamophobic reaction - you really couldn't make it up.

For my 2p worth, I think the Saudis doing a little misdirection has far more credibility than someone actually listening to Trump, and to tar all Muslims over the actions of a few nutters is unhelpful at best.
Why should it be islamophobic to say that the notion of human rights does not exist in the Islam : most Muslims consider human rights as something strange , that is imposed on them by the west .

The world has survived for thousands of years without the notion of human rights, and probably within a few generations, this notion will disappear, and it will be business as usual .
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Old 27 Sep 17, 16:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
I find that Trump influenced this recent historic decision in Saudi Arabia. Remember folks Trump and Co visited Saudi Arabia a few months back where Trump gave a speech respecting Islam and it values but also urging Middle eastern governments to improve. So now today we see Saudi Arabia make a change. And I cite Trump as part of why this positive change occurred. In Saudi many honorable Arab men and women are out there campaigning for freedom saying Jihad and Islam teaches to help the poor, that all men are created equal, and that many of todays Muslim majority governments haven't a clue how Muhammad and Early Muslims lived nor how Sharia law works. It takes a robot to repeat the same taking points as ISIL members do. After all no one out there would treat Third Reich talking points on Jews as being an indicator of how all European Christians feel about Jews. So anyone out there saying hey ISIL is just doing what Muhammad was doing, thats like Hitler saying modern day Jews are just doing what their ancestors did you know usury , attacks on Christian kids etc etc.

In order to anger and defeat the ISIL mindset one must say Jihad means to fight ISIL. During WW2 Christianity was utilized in the newspapers and by leading voices to inspire the people to work hard both at home and on the battlefront. And now today in Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east Islam is being utilized to inspire people to work hard at home and on the battlefront. All throughout Syria and Iraq many Muslims have teamend with Christians to fight ISIL. But also some middle eastern governments which are allied to the USA, such as Saudi Arabia clearly have unjust law laws of which Muslims are saying go against the values of Islam. But today a massive step forward was taken in Saudi, the Muslim voices saying Islam means to teach equality and fight ISIL have won and now will surely continue to win wrt bringing interfaith marriage and Churches to Saudi Arabia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/w...e.html?mcubz=1.
The values of the Islam are not the values of the west . East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.
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Old 27 Sep 17, 21:06
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Will the Saudis allow women in their armed forces?
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Old 27 Sep 17, 22:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
Certain people are welcoming a dead sparrow : muslim women who can drive are not less dangerous for us than muslim women who are not allowed to drive .

And there are no human rights violations in the ME, because in the Islam there are no human rights .

Human rights are an invention from western (especially US )philosophers and politicians.
Everyone has a different take on certain groups. Some dislike Hindus, others dislike Muslims...this may never change

What would you do about the laws in Saudi though? Like do you think Muslim women should be able to drive?

Or perhaps you hate(well hate is a strong word perhaps you dislike) Muslims so much that any topic which uses the word Muslim or Islam would have you react in a negative manner against Muslims...in other words I ask kindly do you think Muslims should be put in camps and eliminated and it an honest question...your own postings force the last question to be asked.

Human rights have been around since the ancient ages..IE Cyrus the Great and the Cyrus Cylinder
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Old 27 Sep 17, 22:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
The values of the Islam are not the values of the west . East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.
When you say west I take it your saying Japan and Israel are a part of the west, nm the fact that neither country is in the western hemisphere. And when you say east you mean Russia, Turkey, Arab Muslim countries, China, and some of the Southern American countries?

The fact is that early Muslims were all about freedom. Therefore not only do I disagree with you, I submit the ones today saying Islam is evolving are similar to Atheists whom have said that Christianity went through a "reformation" or the Muslims and even non Muslims whom vehemently argue that Jesus was not born on Dec 25th, that for example the Bible is not authentic as if people out there just have to up and agree with the , Bill Mahar, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens types of viewpoints. All intelligent folks very successful but in the end to each their own. If anything Im surprised your not a fan of Islam, that you dont admire Muhammad as well as the various Islamic societies of history. I would ask have you always felt negatively of Islam?

These viewpoints that religion can be extreme or moderate is all coming from the same core anti religious stance it gets away from the stories of King Arthur and Robin Hood and how religion can be used to propel good over bad. Now I know you have said there are no moderate Muslims...and yes your 100% right... Because there is no moderation in religion...there are violent religious folks and violent atheists. Violence is a part of human nature...if organized religion went away violence would not go away.

But certainly wouldn't it be a great idea to use talking points that show that Jihad means to fight ISIL, and to stop calling ISIL members "Jihadists", and that Sharia law means to treat people equally...isnt the whole point to upset ISIL well what better way then not only defeating ISIL on the battlefield but also in the classrooms?
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Old 28 Sep 17, 00:39
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Contrast that to western worship.

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Old 28 Sep 17, 01:45
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Mr Jackson , your last paragraph is an insult to all my fellow citizens killed in the Bataclan .
Stop your propaganda .Stick to your weird polls.At least ,that's funny ,not displaced like this thread.
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Old 29 Sep 17, 07:05
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Of all muslim countries I think I like the Saudis best because they know how to have fun and don't take life too seriously, for example check out their car drifting vids on youtube..
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Old 29 Sep 17, 08:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Of all muslim countries I think I like the Saudis best because they know how to have fun and don't take life too seriously, for example check out their car drifting vids on youtube..
You've obviously never been to Saudi - one of the most boring places in the world
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