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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > North America

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North America Important Events in Canada and the United States. .

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  #61  
Old 26 Sep 17, 15:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post
The NFL protests have been nothing but peaceful yet generated tremendous hate towards minorities from the right. So the issue isn't how the protests are conducted, the issue is blacks opening their mouth and complaining at all. Despite the fact that we now clearly see how lowly white America still thinks of blacks.
A lot of Americans take the national anthem and the flag seriously. This isn't about blacks - it's about what it means to be an American, and about entitled people making millions per year playing a kid's game saying they are "oppressed".

In short, it's about BS vs reality, not about blacks or whites. But while you're on the subject, there are a lot of poor whites and others, but how many of them do you see not standing for the anthem?

In a time of world-wide terrorism, being anti-American is not popular no matter who you are.
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  #62  
Old 26 Sep 17, 15:26
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Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post
In the 60's the NRA and republicans supported and enacted restrictive gun legislation in response to blacks open carrying.
Really?!?!? Gun control is racist!!!!!
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  #63  
Old 26 Sep 17, 15:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
A lot of Americans take the national anthem and the flag seriously. This isn't about blacks - it's about what it means to be an American, and about entitled people making millions per year playing a kid's game saying they are "oppressed".

In short, it's about BS vs reality, not about blacks or whites. But while you're on the subject, there are a lot of poor whites and others, but how many of them do you see not standing for the anthem?

In a time of world-wide terrorism, being anti-American is not popular no matter who you are.
That argument becomes invalid when you recognize the fact that black activism has always been met with resistance from MLK to present day.

Further, one does not need to be oppressed in the traditional sense to experience racism. Black athletes their selves admit that they're in a position that's less likely to experience racism, but they want to speak on behalf of the people who are. Still, no one is immune from it as we saw when LeBron James' home was vandalized when someone spray painted n**** on his property.

Kneeling during the anthem was never meant to disrespect the anthem, the flag or veterans. Nor are these athletes anti-American, they said they love their country and only want better from it.

If blacks have nothing to complain about, what the hell are white people doing talking about they're being oppressed? But, again no one talks about how crazy those sentiments and protests are, the fervor is reserved for black protests. Why the double standard?
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  #64  
Old 26 Sep 17, 15:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorderRuffian View Post
From the NFL's game operations manual-

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

This is part of their job. If you sign a contract with an NFL team you have to abide with their rules.
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Originally Posted by BorderRuffian View Post
That's in their contract?
The NFL released a statement on this last year, they're encouraged, but not required to stand.
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  #65  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:18
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Quote:
"I don't think you can disrespect our country, our flag, our national anthem," Trump said. "Many people have died," he added, referring to fallen military members.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/...ZfE?li=BBnb7Kz

He didn't care about disrespecting our veterans or their families during the campaign. I guess it's ok if they're Muslim though.
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  #66  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:20
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Quote:
The hashtag #VeteransForKaepernick began trending after people took notice that the former quarterback, who currently isn't signed to a NFL team, was not standing for the national anthem. After Sunday's gameday protests, veterans took to Twitter again using the hashtag along with a new one, #TakeAKnee.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/veterans-kn...ry?id=50075609
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  #67  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post
Disagreeing with the protests doesn't change the fact that they were still about race. Again, they were. So you can't have a complete conversation about the protests without discussing race.
Kaeperick was protesting about police brutality towards blacks. The link I posted covers that what he claims is happening, hasn't......

If you want to have a complete conversation, lets start off with Kaepernick's false narrative.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post
In the 60's the NRA and republicans supported and enacted restrictive gun legislation in response to blacks open carrying.
"In the 60's".......are we now talking about the 60's?

That was in response to the Black Panthers open carry, it was wrong then. The group supporting restrictive gun legislation now are the Democrats.
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  #68  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:23
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Originally Posted by TactiKill J. View Post

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/west-poi...tional-anthem/
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  #69  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:29
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My 2 cents...

First, I will make a comment which is relevant to what I will add later. So, I will point out that as a person who was not raised in the US, one of the things I found different here is this frequent use of the national anthem even during events which, in Europe at least, do not justify this use. So, as far as I know, when there are international games in Europe, you will hear, of course, the national anthem but in everyday football (what you wrongly call "soccer') this is not the case . So you see some European members here calling this practice "fascism" because in the EUROPEAN history, this frequent use of the national anthem was one of the things authoritarian governments used to unite people.

Now, in the US the tradition is totally different, and such practices are not linked to any fascist tendencies. However, the underlining reason for such practices is still a perceived need to express unity and celebrate the fact that we are Americans, and THIS by itself shows how closely sports and politics are interwoven. And the link of public "entertainment" to politics is nothing new. Ask the Roman Emperors who were staging similar events in the Colosseum which often became the ground of political protests. The same was true with the ancient Greece despite the romantic idea we have about them gathering to compete against each other during the Olympic Games while they put aside their political differences. And of course, everybody knows (I assume) about the raised black fists in modern Olympic games or about the controversial (at the time) stance of Ali.

When black athletes have such a big presence in sports, it is natural to see them using this venue for political statements related to THEIR grievances and not to "breast cancer" or the 9/11 or any other issue for which many other organizations work or for which all Americans are on the same page. Black participants in these "entertaining events" simply continue a well establish tradition, and should be treated as such instead of trying to link it to their "blackness." As for the NFL administrations reaction of selectively tolerating such actions, it makes sense. Sports is like a ritual combat in which teams are built and strong bonds are forged. It makes sense to put THESE bonds above anything else, and if you think about it, something similar applies to the army's brotherhood too. How many times have not you heard the claim that soldiers fight mostly for their comrades and not for their country or their flag? it is these bonds that made many NFLers (including people who ARE Trump supporters) to support their teammates and criticize Trump. And their stance , had less to do with any disrespect to the flag, and more to do with defiance to a president who tells them how they should treat their teammates. This is why you saw this growth of protest AFTER Trump's comments.
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  #70  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny87kz View Post
Really?!?!? Gun control is racist!!!!!
It was called the Mulford Act, and it was enacted in response to "copwatching," and the Black Panthers' takeover of the California legislature in 1967. The bill was authored by a Republican, and heartily endorsed by Ronald Reagan.
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  #71  
Old 26 Sep 17, 17:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamak View Post
My 2 cents...

First, I will make a comment which is relevant to what I will add later. So, I will point out that as a person who was not raised in the US, one of the things I found different here is this frequent use of the national anthem even during events which, in Europe at least, do not justify this use. So, as far as I know, when there are international games in Europe, you will hear, of course, the national anthem but in everyday football (what you wrongly call "soccer') this is not the case . So you see some European members here calling this practice "fascism" because in the EUROPEAN history, this frequent use of the national anthem was one of the things authoritarian governments used to unite people.
This is true. What's scarier to me is that, in school, we're forced to recite the pledge of allegiance every single morning, standing and hand over heart. There's no denying that this is straight out of the fascist playbook and it's an effective form of indoctrination.

One does not need to be under fascist rule in order to be manipulated and controlled by the state for the benefit of the state.

It's no coincidence that any criticism of the country is seen as anti-American. Patriotism in America means supporting your country no matter what, even when your country has done wrong. What does that sound like? It's the way in which we've been indoctrinated to fight among ourselves and never question the powers that be.

Quote:
Now, in the US the tradition is totally different, and such practices are not linked to any fascist tendencies. However, the underlining reason for such practices is still a perceived need to express unity and celebrate the fact that we are Americans, and THIS by itself shows how closely sports and politics are interwoven. And the link of public "entertainment" to politics is nothing new. Ask the Roman Emperors who were staging similar events in the Colosseum which often became the ground of political protests. The same was true with the ancient Greece despite the romantic idea we have about them gathering to compete against each other during the Olympic Games while they put aside their political differences. And of course, everybody knows (I assume) about the raised black fists in modern Olympic games or about the controversial (at the time) stance of Ali.

When black athletes have such a big presence in sports, it is natural to see them using this venue for political statements related to THEIR grievances and not to "breast cancer" or the 9/11 or any other issue for which many other organizations work or for which all Americans are on the same page. Black participants in these "entertaining events" simply continue a well establish tradition, and should be treated as such instead of trying to link it to their "blackness." As for the NFL administrations reaction of selectively tolerating such actions, it makes sense. Sports is like a ritual combat in which teams are built and strong bonds are forged. It makes sense to put THESE bonds above anything else, and if you think about it, something similar applies to the army's brotherhood too. How many times have not you heard the claim that soldiers fight mostly for their comrades and not for their country or their flag? it is these bonds that made many NFLers (including people who ARE Trump supporters) to support their teammates and criticize Trump. And their stance , had less to do with any disrespect to the flag, and more to do with defiance to a president who tells them how they should treat their teammates. This is why you saw this growth of protest AFTER Trump's comments.
Well put.
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  #72  
Old 26 Sep 17, 17:10
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It's kind of interesting that these guys are protesting a nation that made many of them friggin' rich. Some of these players are millionaires, and all of them make pretty good money playing a game. Yet, they choose to insult the very nation that allowed that to happen. How's that for ingratitude?
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Old 26 Sep 17, 17:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
The Steelers did not want to do anything that Villanueva would be uncomfortable with, out of obvious respect for his service. So they asked him what would be ok and he agreed to protest with them. Then he goes back on his word and goes out alone. Mike Tomlin and the coaching staff were also on the field for the anthem, but the attention is paid to the player who said one thing and did another.
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Old 26 Sep 17, 17:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
It's kind of interesting that these guys are protesting a nation that made many of them friggin' rich. Some of these players are millionaires, and all of them make pretty good money playing a game. Yet, they choose to insult the very nation that allowed that to happen. How's that for ingratitude?
It's not about them and money isn't everything. Also it was their individual hard work that got them to where they're at. The government wasn't in the training room with them.
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Old 26 Sep 17, 17:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
It's kind of interesting that these guys are protesting a nation that made many of them friggin' rich. Some of these players are millionaires, and all of them make pretty good money playing a game. Yet, they choose to insult the very nation that allowed that to happen. How's that for ingratitude?
Damn near went straight to pot for James Blake.



Right or wrong, real or imaginary (and I tend to think it's real) to be black in this country is to live with the plausible possibility that you might be wrongly arrested, wrongly convicted, wrongly beaten, or wrongly killed. It happens just often enough to render it far more likely than getting struck by lightening, even if it is less likely than being accosted and victimized by a member of one's own race. Yes, BLM unrealistically magnifies such events and uses them for their own purposes, but the fact is that their occurrence is just frequent enough to justify the fear and the apprehension.
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