HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > World History Group Hosting > RKKA (The Russian Army) in World War II

Notices and Announcements

RKKA (The Russian Army) in World War II Discuss the Russian armed forces in World War II. Hosted by our resident Russian expert, AMVAS. Please visit his RKKA in WW2 Website.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19 Sep 17, 14:45
OpanaPointer's Avatar
OpanaPointer OpanaPointer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,682
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800] OpanaPointer gives and gets respect [800]
Speaking of statues....

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-kal...d/4034854.html

Quote:
MOSCOW
The new statue of Mikhail Kalashnikov cradling his signature AK-47 assault rifle unveiled Tuesday in Moscow commemorates one of Russia's most renowned and reviled inventions. By some estimates, the AK-47 and its versions account for about one-fifth of the world's firearms, the rugged and reliable weapon of choice for many armies, terror groups and drug gangs.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 22 Sep 17, 04:46
Artyom_A's Avatar
Artyom_A Artyom_A is offline
Lieutenant General
Russia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3,187
Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300]
As expected yet another series of epileptic seizures in Russian social media and 1001st episode of "AK was a copy of StG44".
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22 Sep 17, 12:37
Artyom_A's Avatar
Artyom_A Artyom_A is offline
Lieutenant General
Russia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3,187
Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300]
That is what they call bad karma: an exploded drawing of StG44 was mistakenly put on Kalashnikov's monument

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24 Sep 17, 13:42
Artyom_A's Avatar
Artyom_A Artyom_A is offline
Lieutenant General
Russia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3,187
Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300]
Kalashnikov statue changed because of German weapon:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41367394
For some reason BBC decided to eat their portion of crap:
"The story that it was the brainchild of the lowly Sergeant Mikhail Kalashnikov made great Soviet propaganda, but the origins of the design remain a mystery." etc etc.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24 Sep 17, 17:19
Surrey's Avatar
Surrey Surrey is offline
General of the Forums
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive Summer Campaign 100 Greatest Generals, 2008 
Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 5,879
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500] Surrey is a jewel in the rough [500]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
That is what they call bad karma: an exploded drawing of StG44 was mistakenly put on Kalashnikov's monument

How did they manage that? Surely it would be much easier to do use the right image than that of an obscure German weapon? Not as if no one knows what a Kalashnikov looks like...
__________________
"To be free is better than to be unfree - always."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25 Sep 17, 15:32
Artyom_A's Avatar
Artyom_A Artyom_A is offline
Lieutenant General
Russia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3,187
Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
Not as if no one knows what a Kalashnikov looks like...
Again: exploded-view drawing of StG44. I doubt that many people would tell one from another. Images of whole AKs are alright.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26 Sep 17, 16:53
ShAA's Avatar
ShAA ShAA is offline
General of the Forums
Russia
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 12,050
ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
This guy has already sculpted German weapons on his other war memorial before: a monument to a soldier bidding farewell to his girlfriend was installed next to the Belorussky Train Station in Moscow. The two shields with weapons around them were parts of it, and some of the guns appeared to be German Mauser 98Ks!



The sculptor pleaded ignorance of military technology, which is already a damning indictment for someone who takes the commission of making a war memorial. However when the same guy is chosen to do a similar job for the second time, and he comes up with a German gun again, this raises a lot of questions both about the corruption and incompetence of the Ministry of Culture and the strange repetition of "innocent lapses of ignorance".
__________________
www.histours.ru

Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27 Sep 17, 10:34
Poor Old Spike's Avatar
Poor Old Spike Poor Old Spike is offline
Colonel
UK
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,690
Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100] Poor Old Spike has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
..The sculptor pleaded ignorance of military technology...
Or he could use the get-out excuse that captured weapons were extensively used..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27 Sep 17, 11:49
Artyom_A's Avatar
Artyom_A Artyom_A is offline
Lieutenant General
Russia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3,187
Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
The sculptor pleaded ignorance of military technology, which is already a damning indictment for someone who takes the commission of making a war memorial.
Something says me that there is a limited offer of artists/firearms experts on the market. It's the customer job, in this case the Russian Military History Society, to check for screw-up.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27 Sep 17, 12:54
Sharposhnikov's Avatar
Sharposhnikov Sharposhnikov is offline
First Sergeant
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Steilacoom, WA
Posts: 277
Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99]
Inappropriate or just plain inaccurate equipment or weapons on military memorials is not limited to one country or one or two statues.
Another Russian example is in Naro-Fominsk (among many others), where the 'War Memorial' has three vehicles displayed: a T-34-85, an IS-III, and an ISU-152. At least they are all Russian/Soviet, but since all the fighting in and around Naro-Fominsk took place between October and December 1941, when none of those vehicles existed, they are, shall we say, less- than appropriate.
In the USA, almost every county courthouse has a little plaza in front of it with a cannon and a flagpole. Supposedly the cannon are to commemorate the 'fallen patriots', yet many of the cannon are from the American Civil War and many of the courthouses are in states that didn't even exist when that war was fought - like my own state of Washington, but also in Arizona, New Mexico, and Nebraska (that I've seen personally)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 27 Sep 17, 15:51
Artyom_A's Avatar
Artyom_A Artyom_A is offline
Lieutenant General
Russia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3,187
Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300] Artyom_A is on a distinguished road [300]
I think, in modern times Google's image search gave some more mess:

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27 Sep 17, 17:47
ShAA's Avatar
ShAA ShAA is offline
General of the Forums
Russia
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 12,050
ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharposhnikov View Post
Inappropriate or just plain inaccurate equipment or weapons on military memorials is not limited to one country or one or two statues.
Another Russian example is in Naro-Fominsk (among many others), where the 'War Memorial' has three vehicles displayed: a T-34-85, an IS-III, and an ISU-152. At least they are all Russian/Soviet, but since all the fighting in and around Naro-Fominsk took place between October and December 1941, when none of those vehicles existed, they are, shall we say, less- than appropriate.
In the USA, almost every county courthouse has a little plaza in front of it with a cannon and a flagpole. Supposedly the cannon are to commemorate the 'fallen patriots', yet many of the cannon are from the American Civil War and many of the courthouses are in states that didn't even exist when that war was fought - like my own state of Washington, but also in Arizona, New Mexico, and Nebraska (that I've seen personally)
Oh, don't even get me started on all the memorial T-34/85's at battlefield sites of the Siege of Leningrad, which was completely lifted exactly by the time the first tanks of this model started getting sent to frontline units.
__________________
www.histours.ru

Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27 Sep 17, 19:06
Sharposhnikov's Avatar
Sharposhnikov Sharposhnikov is offline
First Sergeant
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Steilacoom, WA
Posts: 277
Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99] Sharposhnikov is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAA View Post
Oh, don't even get me started on all the memorial T-34/85's at battlefield sites of the Siege of Leningrad, which was completely lifted exactly by the time the first tanks of this model started getting sent to frontline units.
This might be a case where the American Civil War cannon and the T-34-85 tanks have a similar origin for memorials: in both cases there were thousands of them 'left over' after their respective wars, so they were available to be mounted on pedestals and plazas everywhere, regardless of whether they were appropriate or not.
I remember back in the 1960s when I was stationed in West Berlin, that the Soviet Memorial there had a T-34-76 mounted on it. While not the obvious choice to commemorate a battle at the very end of the war, at least it's possible that there were still T-34-76 tanks in service in that battle, unlike the T-34-85s and other late war vehicles around Moscow commemorating battles from 1941 and early 1942...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 23:39.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.