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  #46  
Old 19 Sep 17, 05:38
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Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
Problem with that is that they can travel from Belgium and carry out attacks in the rest of Europe. They need to be placed in secure camps in the first country they land in and then repatriated as soon as possible. Not just passed around.
Unfortunately, that is not going to happen for the simple fact that there is no will to do so, either in Brussels or in the Western European states. Hungary tried to set up detention centers for the purpose of establishing and verifying the identity of migrants and ended up being compared with the Nazis and the Third Reich.
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  #47  
Old 19 Sep 17, 05:40
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(...) If however you dig your heals in and just say no there is little the EU can really do.
Actually if the EU were seen to back down occasionally it may make it less unpopular.
Obviously, it's not static either, we resisted the German austerity obsession for years and now it's mostly gone,

this too shall pass
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  #48  
Old 19 Sep 17, 05:45
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Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
(...) Hungary tried to set up detention centers for the purpose of establishing and verifying the identity of migrants and ended up being compared with the Nazis and the Third Reich.
There is a duality of course, IF Italy did indeed do as suggested no doubt there would be criticism, at the same time most up North would be quite happy to not have to deal with them themselves.

English press always compares everything to the Third Reich btw, it's the only Reich they know
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  #49  
Old 19 Sep 17, 05:51
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
English press always compares everything the Third Reich btw, it's the only Reich they know
Wasn't just the English press - it was also the Austrian government.
Yes, the irony. A German-speaking chancellor bringing up references to the Nazis and the Third Reich...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-weekend.html
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  #50  
Old 19 Sep 17, 05:59
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Austria and Hungary are neighbours, lot's of history there and likely many individual interests, I'd take that with a grain of salt.

He seems to object to one aspect of the operation in particular btw,

Quote:
"Refugees put on trains in the belief they are going somewhere else entirely brings back memories of the darkest period of our continent,” said Mr Faymann in an interview with Germany’s Spiegel magazine.
Should be easy enough to remedy, don't tell them they are going "somewhere else entirely".
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  #51  
Old 19 Sep 17, 06:05
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Yes well Austria and Hungary are neighbours, lot's of history there and likely many individual interests, I'd take that with a grain of salt.
Hungarian and Austrian relations are not usually marked by discord - shared history and all that..
Quote:
"Refugees put on trains in the belief they are going somewhere else entirely brings back memories of the darkest period of our continent,” said Mr Faymann in an interview with Germany’s Spiegel magazine.
I suspect this was partly do to a lack of Arabic, Pashtun, Pathan, Turkish, Albanian, and Dari translators. I doubt many of the migrants spoke Hungarian either..
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  #52  
Old 19 Sep 17, 06:11
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And the obstinate refusal of many refugees to be registered in particular country because they want to go to another.

We have a couple of hundred here in Brussels who refuse because they want to go to the UK, and do not want to stay in Belgium.

I imagine the same would apply to a much greater extend in Hungary or even Italy.
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  #53  
Old 19 Sep 17, 06:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
And the obstinate refusal of many refugees to be registered in particular country because they want to go to another.
It does not help that the Lipstick Chancellor continues to declare that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany.
Quote:
"As far as an upper limit is concerned, my position is clear: I will not accept it," she said, saying that numbers could be reduced by regulation and taking action to prevent the situations that cause people to flee one country for another.
http://www.dw.com/en/chancellor-ange...iew/a-39714436

If the German government's position is that that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany then they should all be sent to Germany. However, Germany's position is actually duplicitous: stating that all are welcome to Germany while imposing pressure through the EU to have fellow member states share in the burden.
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  #54  
Old 19 Sep 17, 06:40
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Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
It does not help that the Lipstick Chancellor continues to declare that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany.

http://www.dw.com/en/chancellor-ange...iew/a-39714436

If the German government's position is that that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany then they should all be sent to Germany. However, Germany's position is actually duplicitous: stating that all are welcome to Germany while imposing pressure through the EU to have fellow member states share in the burden.
Sounds a bit like socialism. Determined that 'someone else' should pay. Wanting control without responsibility.
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  #55  
Old 19 Sep 17, 07:17
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Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
The question is would the EU simply subtract (from the EU funds allocated to Poland/Hungary) the cost of keeping in Italy and Greece the migrants allocated to Poland/Hungary, or would it go further and also impose some kind of heavier fine/punishment?
Who would define the cost ? Poland ?

Quote:
If we're only talking about the former, then I doubt it's a big deal and the EU stick is very small. A few 1,000s people can't add up to more than a few million euros a year (possibly exaggerated too). Subtracting only this from their EU funds wouldn't be prohibitive and would in fact encourage others to follow suit.
If cost is so low and effect marginal why this circus ?

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The "pay them where they are instead of having them here" idea, but within the EU.
Still dodging the question : Why Italy should pay for Poland within EU but Poland should be free to pick money from Italy with no refugees on Italian soil.
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  #56  
Old 19 Sep 17, 07:21
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What happens if Poland just ignores the EU court and refuses to allow the refugees in?
EU court does not force Poland to anything. ECJ stated that EU Council directive was legal. EU Council is made of head of state of each Members State.
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Old 19 Sep 17, 07:58
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Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
(...)
If the German government's position is that that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany then they should all be sent to Germany. However, Germany's position is actually duplicitous: stating that all are welcome to Germany while imposing pressure through the EU to have fellow member states share in the burden.
Way back at the height of the influx we agreed to take a few dozen from the Germans.

We fetched them, housed them like we usually do until they could find a job.

They were however sorely dismayed, by having to live in army barracks instead of the hotels they were used to in Germany, by the fact nobody could understand their broken German, and by the unhappy circumstance there were no 1€ fruit picking/cleaning jobs for them on every street corner.

So they promptly "escaped" and returned to Germany

An ever growing economy comes with a price - cheap labour.
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  #58  
Old 19 Sep 17, 12:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
It does not help that the Lipstick Chancellor continues to declare that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany.

http://www.dw.com/en/chancellor-ange...iew/a-39714436

If the German government's position is that that there is no upper limit for refugees to Germany then they should all be sent to Germany. However, Germany's position is actually duplicitous: stating that all are welcome to Germany while imposing pressure through the EU to have fellow member states share in the burden.
It is kinda related to Germans laws. Or would you expect a country's leader to openly violate its own laws thereby making herself open for prosecution?
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Old 19 Sep 17, 14:22
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It is kinda related to Germans laws. Or would you expect a country's leader to openly violate its own laws thereby making herself open for prosecution?
It's a German law to invite unlimited numbers of migrants to Germany and then impose part of the resultant costs upon neighboring countries?
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Old 19 Sep 17, 15:30
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It's a German law to invite unlimited numbers of migrants to Germany and then impose part of the resultant costs upon neighboring countries?
ECJ ruling deal with Italy and Greece, not Germany.
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