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Air Power A place to discuss the implements of War in the Air!

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  #1  
Old 06 Sep 17, 01:38
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Best way to counter bi-planes?

Read something on FB about the An-2's of the DPRK being a threat still. Mainly, I think its the fact that it flies so slow and low that it would be difficult to track and to shoot from the air. Also, with so many hilly valleys in Korea, it can be hard for ground based AAA and SAMs to hit it. What are modern militaries methods of countering such planes? Seems jet fighters wouldn't be as effective as saw ROK KT-1 turpoprop trainers with .50 cals on them. I was thinking a Super Tucano or any late-WW2 fighter would be sufficient enough to take them out.
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  #2  
Old 06 Sep 17, 01:51
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Attack Helicopter like an AH 64? I don't think there are any more A-1 Skyraiders around anymore.

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Old 06 Sep 17, 01:53
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Old 06 Sep 17, 02:21
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If you know where it is a pass at supersonic speed and letting it get hit by the sonic shockwave would probably be sufficient to down it.

I'd say these days, a drone would probably be extremely dangerous to one.
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Old 06 Sep 17, 04:31
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Drones for enduring anti-biplane work.

Attack helicopters for dealing with a flight of them once spotted.

Drones can easily shoot them down with an ATGM to the engine. Attack helos can fly just as fast or faster, and a burst of cannon would be more than sufficient.

I wouldn't plan anything specialized for these planes. I'd just make plans for Army and Marine helo pilots to be putting aircraft kills on their birds.
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Old 06 Sep 17, 05:49
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Yes low and slow makes it harder to shoot at or lock up a plane or helo that's obscured by hills and trees, but the danger is that if you happen to fly over a recon platoon or whatever, they can put up a hailstorm of automatic rifle fire that you'll have to fly through. And even a lone farmer can take a pot at you like in this scene from 'Flight of the Intruder' where a North Vietnam farmer kills the co-pilot of a jet (or is he called a RIO?)-



PS- Does anybody here play Armed Assault III multiplayer? Chopper pilots get shot down all the time at low level by small arms; I downed two Ghosthawks yesterday with my Navid LMG..

Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 06 Sep 17 at 06:15..
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Old 06 Sep 17, 07:18
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The CIA knew how in 68

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lima_Site_85

"On 12 January, CIA spotters reported a four aircraft formation flying in the direction of Lima Site 85. They were Soviet-made Antonov An-2 biplanes. Two aircraft continued towards Lima Site 85, while the others turned away.[9] The Vietnam People's Air Force, in one of its few air attacks during the conflict, tried to destroy the radar at Lima Site 85. The An-2s flew over Phou Pha Thi, and their crewmen dropped 120 mm mortar shells through the aircraft's floor and then strafed their targets with 57 mm rockets mounted on the wing pods.[10] As they repeatedly attacked the facility, ground fire heavily damaged one AN-2, and it crashed into a mountainside. By now, CIA officers and U.S. controllers at Lima Site 85 had managed to contact an Air America helicopter, which was faster than the Soviet-made biplanes. The Huey pilot Captain Ted Moore sighted the remaining An-2, and promptly gave chase. As he pulled alongside, flight mechanic Glenn Woods armed with an AK-47 assault rifle opened fire and caused the biplane to crash into a ridge"



I think I first saw that painting in Armchair general magazine many years ago. Remember Magazines?


More at https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...bat-first.html

The Link above is a great little read, I know due to copyright I can't post the whole article (don't want to annoy the CIA of all people), but the link is worth following.

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Last edited by Chukka; 06 Sep 17 at 07:33..
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  #8  
Old 06 Sep 17, 07:25
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Do a leaflet drop letting the NORK Pilots know they can get up to $30 grand cold hard cash for their birds on the warbird/bushpilot market.


http://www.an2flyers.org/forsaleads.html
An2, N73AN For Sale.

Flying condition with numerous recent repaired/overhauled parts.
New overhauled carburetor
New Magneto coils
New main tires
New firewall forward fuel lines
New fuel sending unit floats
New fuel filters
brakes serviced
New starter motor
Engine approximately 760 hours SMOH

This aircraft has a unique set of retractable wheel skis - take off/land on hard surface or snow.

Ideal machine for hauling 3000 lbs of equipment/gear/building supplies to remote sites in the cold north.

Currently located in Iqaluit, Canada.

Aircraft only at $37,000. with skis at $46,500.




I wonder if the Donkey was included?
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  #9  
Old 06 Sep 17, 07:39
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Nothing special about biplanes except that they are often very maneuverable and it's that as much as slow speed that make them difficult to down. After all a jet has no problem hitting a slow moving target on the ground. The maneuverable aircraft can make a sudden tight turn which the jet cannot match and overshoots. AOP pilots flying Taylorcraft Austers and the like have used this as a means of surviving. However the non jet pilot needs to know where the jet is and the rearward vision on the An2 would be pretty poor

When the sewing machine bombers were used in WW2 other obsolete aircraft were pressed into service as night fighters to deal with them. There is a case of an RAF autogyro when doing a radar calibration flight being attacked by two Fw 190s and outmaneuvering them at very low altitude so that one crashed into the sea stalling on a very tight turn. I think if memory serves that the RAF pilot was named Clark.
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Last edited by MarkV; 06 Sep 17 at 07:52..
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Old 06 Sep 17, 08:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukka View Post
Do a leaflet drop letting the NORK Pilots know they can get up to $30 grand cold hard cash for their birds on the warbird/bushpilot market.


http://www.an2flyers.org/forsaleads.html
An2, N73AN For Sale.

Flying condition with numerous recent repaired/overhauled parts.
New overhauled carburetor
New Magneto coils
New main tires
New firewall forward fuel lines
New fuel sending unit floats
New fuel filters
brakes serviced
New starter motor
Engine approximately 760 hours SMOH

This aircraft has a unique set of retractable wheel skis - take off/land on hard surface or snow.

Ideal machine for hauling 3000 lbs of equipment/gear/building supplies to remote sites in the cold north.

Currently located in Iqaluit, Canada.

Aircraft only at $37,000. with skis at $46,500.




I wonder if the Donkey was included?
Wings look in bad shape.
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  #11  
Old 06 Sep 17, 09:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukka View Post
Do a leaflet drop letting the NORK Pilots know they can get up to $30 grand cold hard cash for their birds on the warbird/bushpilot market.
If they are prepared to sacrifice their families for 30 grand even if they are in silver pieces.
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Last edited by MarkV; 06 Sep 17 at 09:26..
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Old 06 Sep 17, 11:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Wings look in bad shape.
That'll fix with some duct tape...
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Old 06 Sep 17, 12:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
That'll fix with some duct tape...
Sure and some WD-40 to touch up the paint.
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Old 09 Sep 17, 18:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Wings look in bad shape.
And that picture ain't been taken in Iqaluit. 1st clue - trees.
Iqaluit has none (nor grass or donkeys too), lotsa snow for 11.5 months per year though, rocks for the other half month,
after all, summer season is August 13th, 11:30am to 1:45pm
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Old 09 Sep 17, 20:08
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It's a ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krasny Strela View Post
And that picture ain't been taken in Iqaluit. 1st clue - trees.
Iqaluit has none (nor grass or donkeys too), lotsa snow for 11.5 months per year though, rocks for the other half month,
after all, summer season is August 13th, 11:30am to 1:45pm
... Muskox with a bad case of mange, during a global warming related tundral bloom, pining for the fiords.
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