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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Europe

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Europe Issues of modern Europe.

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  #1  
Old 31 Aug 17, 22:55
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Global Warming? Not in

Denmark,

Denmark faces first ‘summer-less’ July in 38 years

Quote:
Let’s face it, this has hardly felt like summer. Now we’ve got the numbers to prove it.
According to the Danish Meteorology Institute (DMI), July is likely to end without a single ‘summer day’, which is defined as any day in which temperatures top 25C (77F) at least somewhere in Denmark.

If the next five days come and go without hitting 25C as predicted, it will mark the first time that Danes will have suffered through a summer-less July in nearly four decades.

“There are only three years in our records in which July contains a big fat zero when it comes to summer days and temps above 25C. That’s 1962, 1974 and 1979,” climatologist John Cappelen said on the DMI website.

DMI’s database goes back to 1874.

The warmest day thus far this month was July 19th, when an almost-yet-not-quite-there 24.6C was recorded. There were only two days in all of June that qualified as a summer day, while May had five.

But meteorologist Klaus Larsen said that all hope is not yet lost.

“The prognoses for the last day of the month - Monday the 31st – are hopping back and forth over the magic point. Until then there are no real signs that we will get over 25C so no matter what we are looking at a meteorological photo finish,” he said.

Before banking on Monday to break July’s sad streak, perhaps it’s worth a reminder that DMI wrongly predicted we would top 25C last week.

Oh well, we can always hope against hope that August is better.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20170726/den...ly-in-38-years
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  #2  
Old 01 Sep 17, 02:38
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Warm weather in Northern Europe depends in the end heavily on how air masses over the Atlantic behave (and where the jet streams end up). Which in turn are affected by the Gulf Stream. And those can be affected by the global warming - they can be affected by many other things as well.

The point is that some climate scientists have been saying here (in Northern Europe) that global warming will likely result - early on - in colder summers and warmer winters.
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Old 01 Sep 17, 03:29
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It's quite unbelievable -

they're standing up to their necks in water, but they're looking on the internet at the weather in Denmark, of all places, in order to deny climate change
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Old 01 Sep 17, 03:54
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What's the proof that what is happening at Houston is caused by "climate change " ?

On 8 september 1900 a hurricane destroyed the town of Galvestone (in TEXAS) and caused the death of 8000 persons .

Was this caused by "climate change " ?

In 1926 a hurricane hit Miami ,causing 114 victims , and later there was Andrew, etc,

The south-east of the US has always been hit by hurricanes,and there are no proofs that this indicated a "climate change" or that the "climate change" caused the hurricanes .

There are also no indications that there are today more.more powerful tornados than in the past .

Last edited by ljadw; 01 Sep 17 at 04:11..
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Old 01 Sep 17, 04:03
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Well for sure a frisky summer in Denmark is far more significant
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Old 01 Sep 17, 05:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Well for sure a frisky summer in Denmark is far more significant
Some people don't know the difference between climate and weather.
When you find someone like that just smile and walk away. Anything else is just a waste of your time.
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Old 01 Sep 17, 05:57
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We never got either the Mediterranean warm air or the Russian warm air this summer up here. It happens sometime. Some winters we get the arctic cold parking itself over us for months. Usually we get the southern continental weather patters, with rain and temps above 0 for most of the winters.

The worrying thing is when the statistical trend indicates these patterns might be changing.

There is no technical incongruence in how something as complex as weather patterns shifting might mean Scandinavia stops getting the southern or eastern summer weather reaching is. We ARE at the same latitude as Alaska and Kamchatka after all. We've just been relatively blessed with weather much more clement, because the southern weather systems are allowed to push all the way up here. If you just look at the damn ball, we might as well not expect any summers at all, based on our northerly position.

Things ARE shifting. That's the big worry. Though the thawing of the Siberian and Canadian Arctic might be rather more important here...
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Old 01 Sep 17, 06:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
Some people don't know the difference between climate and weather.
When you find someone like that just smile and walk away. Anything else is just a waste of your time.
Hurricanes are weather.








https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/...with-eclipses/

Dr. Ryan Maue = Hurricane meteorologist.
Dr. Neil Disgrace Tyson = TV "scientist."
Dr. Roger Pielke Sr. = Climatology meteorologist.

Last edited by The Doctor; 01 Sep 17 at 06:27..
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Old 01 Sep 17, 06:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Well for sure a frisky summer in Denmark is far more significant
A cold summer in Denmark has far more climatological significance than a hurricane in hurricane season. Although, it's also almost certainly "just weather," like Hurricane Harvey.

Last edited by The Doctor; 01 Sep 17 at 07:26..
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Old 01 Sep 17, 06:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeltaja View Post
Warm weather in Northern Europe depends in the end heavily on how air masses over the Atlantic behave (and where the jet streams end up). Which in turn are affected by the Gulf Stream. And those can be affected by the global warming - they can be affected by many other things as well.

The point is that some climate scientists have been saying here (in Northern Europe) that global warming will likely result - early on - in colder summers and warmer winters.
So far they have been correct. and the Alps glaciers continue to melt.
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Old 01 Sep 17, 06:33
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For the irreparably ignorant: The "hills" are glacial maxima. The "valleys" are glacial minima... the periods during which human remains and other archaeological artifacts are natutally exposed. It requires a monumental depth of ignorance to think that recent glacial retreats were unusual in the overall context of the Holocene.

The Greenland and Antarctic ice caps have been relatively permanent features throughout the Quaternary (possibly since the Oligocene in the case of Antarctica). If these ice masses melted, it would be a big deal. On the other hand, alpine and valley glaciers, like those of the Alpa, and year-round Arctic sea ice have not been permanent features. They are relatively recent and probably rare features of the Holocene. The geological evidence indicates that the presence these small ice masses is anomalous.

The “small glaciers” of Glacier National Park, Montana may have not existed during the Holocene Climatic Optimum (HCO). The geological evidence suggests that they formed about 7,000 years ago as the Earth’s climate began to cool after the HCO (Neoglaciation).
The history of glaciation within current Glacier National Park boundaries spans centuries of glacial growth and recession, carving the features we see today. Glaciers were present within current Glacier National Park boundaries as early as 7,000 years ago but may have survived an early Holocene warm period (Carrara, 1989), making them much older. These modest glaciers varied in size, tracking climatic changes, but did not grow to their Holocene maximum size until the end of the Little Ice Age (LIA) around A.D. 1850. While they may not have formed in their entirety during the LIA, their maximum perimeters can be documented through mapping of lateral and terminal moraines. (Key, 2002) The extent and mass of these glaciers, as well as glaciers around the globe, has clearly decreased during the 20th century in response to warmer temperatures.
https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/...center_objects

The glaciers at Glacier NP were generally advancing from about 7,000 years ago up until the mid-1800's, when Earth began to recover from the Little Ice Age...
Climate reconstructions representative of the Glacier National Park region extend back multiple centuries and show numerous long-duration drought and wet periods that influenced the mass balance of glaciers (Pederson et al. 2004). Of particular note was an 80-year period (~1770-1840) of cool, wet summers and above-average winter snowfall that led to a rapid growth of glaciers just prior to the end of the LIA. Thus, in the context of the entire Holocene, the size of glaciers at the end of the LIA was an anomaly of sorts. In fact, the large extent of ice coverage removed most of the evidence of earlier glacier positions by overriding terminal and lateral moraines.

Tree-ring based climate records and historic photographs indicate the initiation of frontal recession and ice mass thinning between A.D. 1860 and 1880. The alignment of decadal-scale climate anomalies over the early 20th century produced a period of glacial recession somewhat analogous to conditions experienced over the past few decades. The coupling of hot, dry summers with substantial decreases in winter snowpack (~30% of normal) produced dramatic recession rates as high as 100 m/yr from A.D. 1917-1941 (Pederson et al. 2004). These multidecadal episodes have substantially impacted the mass balance of glaciers since A.D. 1900.

[...]

https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/...center_objects

Glaciers are either advancing (increasing mass balance) or retreating (decreasing mass balance). They rarely sit still... Even if they do move glacially slow.

7,000 years ago, Chaney Glacier began advancing, reaching the magenta perimeter in 1850...



Since 1850, it has retreated to its current position.

The coldest phase of the Little Ice Age (ca 1600 AD) was probably the coldest period of the Holocene. In Greenland, the Little Ice Age was about as cold as Pleistocene glacial interstadials.

The questions I would pose to the Warmunists are:
  1. Would you prefer that Earth remained as cold as the Little Ice Age? Or continued to cool towards glacial stage conditions?
  2. Would you prefer advancing or retreating glaciers?

Last edited by The Doctor; 01 Sep 17 at 09:10..
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Old 01 Sep 17, 07:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
Hurricanes are weather.
They are indeed.
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Old 01 Sep 17, 07:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
A cold summer in Denmark has far more climatological significance than a hurricane in hurricane season. Although, it's also almost certainly "just weather," like Hurricane Harvey.
So have the wild grapes in my garden Doc, but you don't see me starting threads about them do you now
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Old 01 Sep 17, 07:49
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Quote:
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They are indeed.
A cold summer is also likely to be just weather too.

Is it OK to use "also" and "too" in the same sentence?
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Old 01 Sep 17, 07:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
So have the wild grapes in my garden Doc, but you don't see me starting threads about them do you now
I'm pretty sure I didn't start this thread... or any thread in a while. For now, my "return engagement" will be limited to slapping down any stupid posts about Hurricane Harvey...
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