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Real Time Strategy Games Discussion of all strategy games that use a Real-Time system, from the typical RTS games to the hardcore wargames.

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  #16  
Old 02 Sep 17, 09:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyhighway View Post
.../inˈkäNGɡro͝oənt,ˌinkənˈɡro͞oənt/..
Well that settles it mate, Klingon is your first language which explains why you've misunderstood my sensational posts..
The AI of any game has never given me any trouble, but if it's giving you a hard time tell us which games you play and we'll tell you how to bust its ass, no problem..

PS- Hey guys here's something I don't like about Dangerous Waters, namely there are silly "birdcages" plastered on vessels in the 3D view like below and they look bloody awful, that's my Perry in the foreground, but the Arleigh Burke in the background is cluttered up with birdcages, they're supposed to represent "location and identification uncertainty", yet the ship is only a couple of hundred yards away so there's absolutely NO uncertainty about its location and I.D.!
I've asked in the Subsim DW forum how to get rid of the birdcages on our own allied ships but the answers so far indicate you can't, unless you select the "Show Truth" option but that's no good because it removes the fog of war from the whole map and makes every enemy unit show up on the map, totally unrealistic (sniffle)..

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  #17  
Old 02 Sep 17, 10:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Sorry mate I don't know what 'incongruent' is, otherwise I'd try dabbing calamine lotion on it to see if it clears up. Perhaps you've got me mixed up with somebody else, or perhaps you misunderstood my posts.
Anyway here are my 'credentials', this is one of a number of wargame ladders I've topped over the past 15 years against deadly human opponents, so no way hozay would I ever have any trouble trashing dumb AI units and neither would anybody else..



Dictionary:
in·con·gru·ent
adjective
adjective: incongruent
incongruous; incompatible.

Sorry mate, but you said you had a superior tactical mind. I see, the AI did not tell you!

And you still got defeated by the "Dangerous Water" AI. I hope you'll recover from that public humiliation. We can still read through your posts, the emotional disturbance it threw you in, on subsim.com! It must have been quiet an ordeal, to the point you were blaming the game conception instead of yourself. What a lesson of courage, one could think!

Besides, 74 won over 146 played is only a 50.6% of winning, not that impressive Mr. Braggart!...To vanquish without peril, you triumph without glory!...
Mickey#12th in that list, is a better tactician with a 66% rate of win, and he does not brag about it!....Or Lord Bane (FGM) #5 with a 71% of win rate, is also a much better tactician.
What?...No!...Mickey was the AI?....I rest my case, then!

Last edited by Gunnyhighway; 02 Sep 17 at 17:29..
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  #18  
Old 02 Sep 17, 10:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Hey guys here's something I don't like about Dangerous Waters, namely there are silly "birdcages" plastered on vessels in the 3D view like below and they look bloody awful, that's my Perry in the foreground, but the Arleigh Burke in the background is cluttered up with birdcages, they're supposed to represent "location and identification uncertainty", yet the ship is only a couple of hundred yards away so there's absolutely NO uncertainty about its location and I.D.!
I've asked in the Subsim DW forum how to get rid of the birdcages on our own allied ships but the answers so far indicate you can't, unless you select the "Show Truth" option but that's no good because it removes the fog of war from the whole map and makes every enemy unit show up on the map, totally unrealistic (sniffle)..
If you would have read the manual, you would have known what it means instead of keeping blaming the game, and it is a mission that you designed, so no wonder it can look "special". Besides, that contradicts what you wrote earlier on the top of that thread, and I quote: "Dangerous Waters
This is a submarine AND surface ship and air 3D simulator, your ship is the dear old US Perry frigate, it's fun as long as you remember the CIWS gun is on the rear decking and therefore can't engage incoming anti-ship missiles on the bows unless you order a sharp turn to open its firing arc.
Oh, and you have to assign targets to its SAM's and Harpoons yourself or they won't fire.
Overall the game is fine if you like micromanaging."

Micromanaging is the word some people use when they are tactically overwhelmed. When the situation gets out of hands as one did not expect; when it starts to get real, one starts to panic and says he has to micromanage! It is when the board becomes bigger than the player's mind can handle, when the player reaches the limits of his tactical abilities, then blame follow suit. Some cries can be heard and some mumbles can be heard. Some posts appear in forums: "It is not me, I did not fail to Improvise, Adapt, Overcome! This is the game!...The game is tactically overwhelming! This is Micromanagement!" Moreover, hiccups alternatively with sobs are heard and translated into more forum posts: "I am the greatest, I have a 50% rate of success. I am a Cyclops in a realm of blind people!".
Poor thing!

Last edited by Gunnyhighway; 02 Sep 17 at 17:34..
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  #19  
Old 02 Sep 17, 11:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
2- Yes PBEM is popular, but if you've just got one or two games going against different opponents you could find yourself twiddling your thumbs for hours waiting for them to send their next move. I solved that problem by having over 20 games going at the same time so that I was always guaranteed to have files in my inbox..
I found myself in a similar situation with FlashPoint Campaigns and also had over 20 PBEM matches going at the same time. Sadly, the game developers ran that game into the ground. It is no longer worth the time to play. In fact, virtually no one plays it anymore (including me.)
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  #20  
Old 02 Sep 17, 13:19
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I found myself in a similar situation with FlashPoint Campaigns and also had over 20 PBEM matches going at the same time. Sadly, the game developers ran that game into the ground. It is no longer worth the time to play. In fact, virtually no one plays it anymore (including me.)
I did play FlashPoint Campaigns when it came out, then stopped. I did not know you were playing it.
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Old 02 Sep 17, 16:34
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I played FPC up until v2.08 (2015). At that point, they were destroying far more than they were fixing (or adding cosmetically.) Every 'patch' broke more than the previous release and it was just one bug after another. Even the most basic game options stopped working and you were left with the most ridiculous behaviours.

What a shame. Up until that point, the game was decently playable because you could at least try to work-around the bad behaviours.
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  #22  
Old 02 Sep 17, 17:15
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Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
I played FPC up until v2.08 (2015). At that point, they were destroying far more than they were fixing (or adding cosmetically.) Every 'patch' broke more than the previous release and it was just one bug after another. Even the most basic game options stopped working and you were left with the most ridiculous behaviours.

What a shame. Up until that point, the game was decently playable because you could at least try to work-around the bad behaviours.
Something I liked about it, is that you could check the battlefield in google earth, and I found that innovative.

What did you start to play instead?...
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  #23  
Old 02 Sep 17, 17:51
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I was asked to record a Let's Play series for the Grand Campaign scenario of War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. It is currently on turn #700, or so.



The true shame is that FPC was actually able to capture lightning in a bottle, even if only for a few years. They had a game that was fun, easy to learn, and relatively bug-free. The developers, On Target Simulations, actually had to work in order to run the game down to its current dismal state.

Conversely, there are games like Modern Naval Operations that released in a dismal Alpha-state and never really improved much beyond that point, even after 12 'patches'. I think it is more than coincidence that both MNO and FPC are published by Matrix Games.
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  #24  
Old 02 Sep 17, 20:00
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I like that vid of War Of The Pacific. Old game, but certainly interesting. I'll look into it. The scope of the game looks impressive. Thank you Herman for posting that vid.
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  #25  
Old 03 Sep 17, 06:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyhighway View Post
....74 won over 146 played is only a 50.6% of winning, not that impressive Mr. Braggart!...
Check your monitor display settings mate, you seem to have missed this line on the ladder rankings- "1st- PoorOldSpike"..
It's a "body count" ladder, and the 'All Time points' column indicates that I've done more wholesale slaughtering than anybody else.
"I am become Death, shatterer of worlds"- Bhagavad-Gita

As for me being 'Mr.Braggart', you could say the same thing about Monty or Patton or Trump, but remember they're all WINNERS..
Shrinking violets don't last long on the battlefield, for example when I play opponents they sometimes say "You should win this easily, I always seem to have bad luck", so I tell them- "Don't rely on Lady Luck, MAKE YOUR OWN LUCK! Remember, a bullet or shell still flies at a zillion feet per second regardless of whether a newcomer or old hand pulls the trigger, so that makes you just as bloody dangerous as anybody else!"

"Luck has a peculiar habit of favoring those who don't depend on it" - Anon
"Luck is believing you're lucky" - Tennessee Williams
"I deserved my good luck" - Margaret Thatcher

PS- Let's see if your monitor has better luck displaying this picture of the 6" hallowed trophy I won for topping another ladder (Rugged Defense), I keep it on my coffee table carefully positioned to catch the rays of the sun so that guests will be dazzled by it when they arrive, and I can keep steering the conversation towards it..


Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 03 Sep 17 at 08:36..
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  #26  
Old 03 Sep 17, 06:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
..FlashPoint Campaigns...Sadly, the game developers ran that game into the ground. It is no longer worth the time to play. In fact, virtually no one plays it anymore (including me.)
Thanks mate I've never had FPC, but from what you say it sounds as if the developers messed up bigtime.
Exactly the same thing is happening right now with Armed Assault III, the devs have got a policy of continually "refining" and modifying it to allegedly improve it, but every new tweak brings new bugs and glitches.
For example earlier this year they changed the AA missile launcher lockon parameters and now it's almost impossible to shoot down jets, and they changed the helicopter pilots view so drastically that chopper jocks are complaining like crazy and everybody is saying "Why the hell fix things that don't need fixing?"
Even worse, new tweaks make all earlier tutorials, youtube vids and carefully designed scenarios become out of date and meaningless.

PS- When I was a paid developer at Cases Computer Simulation (below), our policy was to put games on the market as fully-finalised products, and we'd never dream of going back to mess with them..

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Old 03 Sep 17, 07:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyhighway View Post
If you would have read the manual, you would have known what it means instead of keeping blaming the game...and I quote: "Dangerous Waters.. it's fun as long as you remember the CIWS gun is on the rear decking and therefore can't engage incoming anti-ship missiles on the bows unless you order a sharp turn to open its firing arc.
Oh, and you have to assign targets to its SAM's and Harpoons yourself or they won't fire.Overall the game is fine if you like micromanaging."
Micromanaging is the word some people use when they are tactically overwhelmed.
Thanks for quoting my fair and balanced mini-review again mate, it sums up DW perfectly..
In real life, the captain of any vessel can go to his cabin for a nap, confident to leave the ship in the hands of his crew, knowing that they'll defend it if they come under surprise attack, but in DW they don't do that!
Instead, you have to tell your Perry crew what to do every step of the way by hopping around your ship to the Radar station, the Weapons station, the ASTAC station, the Sonar station, the Heli station etc, to order missile and torpedo launches, gun targets etc, and at the same time you also have to issue speed and course changes yourself.
If there are just a few enemy units to deal with, that's easy enough, but if there are a whole bunch of them it becomes an unrealistic arcadey-style frantic clickfest.
In short, if you don't issue orders yourself, your Perry will simply sail straight on like a dumb sitting duck; the only thing it does automatically is to auto-fire its CIWS gatling IF its firing arc is open but it won't auto-fire its SAMs or anything else.

PS- Still on the subject of micro-managing, you also have to do that in CMANO/Inferno/Chains because they won't fire their point-defence CIWS unless you manually turn each ship to open its firing arcs, and as scens often contain many ships, it's almost impossible to keep tabs on them all.

Note: in many wargames the units DON'T have to be micromanaged because their AI is smart enough to ensure they'll defend themselves reasonably well, but we can step in any time to manually issue orders if we have to.
For example in this Combat Mission Black Sea game I've got too many red Russian units to be able micromanage them individually in combat against the blue Ukrainians, but I know their AI will prop them up until I can dive in to take manual control of any of them that are under pressure-



In this zoomed view my AI tanks are shooting well enough on their own initiative, but I can always step in to order them personally if I want to.
In other words, the AI of good wargames like this one give units just enough commonsense to defend themselves most of the time without us having to micromanage them all the time..

Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 03 Sep 17 at 08:10..
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  #28  
Old 03 Sep 17, 08:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Hum View Post
I was asked to record a Let's Play series for the Grand Campaign scenario of War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. It is currently on turn #700, or so.
Nice vid Herman, are you HarPlonked?
Does WITPAM have a mission builder where we can build neat small-scale fictitious scens, or can we only play big scenarios?
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Old 03 Sep 17, 10:54
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I like that vid of War Of The Pacific. Old game, but certainly interesting. I'll look into it. The scope of the game looks impressive.
AE and MNO are a good comparison and study in contrast. Both games have atrocious UI that punish players. AE requires players to make a kajllion clicks while MNO victims spend all of their time zooming in and out to try and find out what is happening.

The difference between the two games is that in AE, after a bazillion clicks, the player is rewarded with good game play and he is looking forward to the next turn. It is one of those 'just-one-more-turn' games (and then you see the sunrise.)

After a few hours, MNO victims just want to end their suffering and kill themselves.
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  #30  
Old 03 Sep 17, 10:58
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PS- When I was a paid developer at Cases Computer Simulation (below), our policy was to put games on the market as fully-finalised products, and we'd never dream of going back to mess with them..
There is certainly something to be said for the old-style of computer games that actually tried to test them because the developers knew that there could be no changes once they were shipped.

Alas, the internet has been both a blessing and curse in regards to patches. Lazy and incompetent developers, along with their complicit publishers, have used it as a crutch to push out bug-infested titles like MNO. Even after 12 'patches', the game runs as badly as ever. The standard MNO excuse is, "we'll fix it in the NEXT patch." They should adopt it as the corporate motto.
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