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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #1  
Old 25 Aug 17, 19:11
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Why does it matter if Americans owned slaves?

? And why does it matter if we took land from the Indians?
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  #2  
Old 25 Aug 17, 19:13
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? And why does it matter if we took land from the Indians?
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  #3  
Old 25 Aug 17, 19:15
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We also took the slaves that the Indians enslaved...
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Old 25 Aug 17, 19:18
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the indians did the same thing...indian tribes stole land from other tribes
so it doesn't matter
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Old 25 Aug 17, 19:23
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We did it in the name of progress.
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Old 25 Aug 17, 19:55
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We did it in the name of progress.
More like expansion just like everyone else...Still happening, but with a fancier name, Eminent Domain.
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Old 25 Aug 17, 20:37
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Why?


Why today, you mean.
Political leverage for use against the weak-minded and the soft hearted.
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Old 25 Aug 17, 20:46
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? And why does it matter if we took land from the Indians?
The real question is twofold: Why are you even asking the questions?
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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American87 View Post
? And why does it matter if we took land from the Indians?
So you are of the opinion that when a Nation gives it's word, via a treaty, that it is OK to then turn around and break that word, i.e. treaty? You see nothing wrong with that at all?
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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:27
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Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
So you are of the opinion that when a Nation gives it's word, via a treaty, that it is OK to then turn around and break that word, i.e. treaty? You see nothing wrong with that at all?
do you think the NAs gave warning to other tribes when they attacked other tribes?
..the US was no worse than the NAs

from The Earth is Weeping
the NAs were
Quote:
too busy fighting one another to give their undivided attention to the new threat
Quote:
the basis of the rivalry [ between the tribes] was both a relentless drive by the Lakota-Northern Cheyenne-Northern Arapoho alliance to expand their hunting lands and the warrior culture common to all Plains tribes
Quote:
The most intense intertribal conflict occurred on the northern plains,
where warfare was fluid and continuous, as tribes struggled to conquer or protect hunting grounds
Quote:
..the Comanches were a fierce and CRUEL people
CRUEL
Quote:
willfully causing pain or suffering to others, or feeling no concern about it.
bold and caps mine..for emphasis only
the book then goes on to talk about the same thing of southwestern tribes/etc and so on....
war was part of the Iroquois culture...stealing/raping/torture/etc--no worse no better than any other race/etc

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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
do you think the NAs gave warning to other tribes when they attacked other tribes?
..the US was no worse than the NAs

from The Earth is Weeping
the NAs were



bold mine
the book then goes on to talk about the same thing of southwestern tribes/etc and so on....
war was part of the Iroquois culture...stealing/raping/torture/etc--no worse no better than any other race/etc
Immaterial what they did between each other. Answer the question I ask. Do you believe that when a Nation gives it's word its word via a treaty then it is under NO obligation what so ever to abide by the treaty.

Yes or No.
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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:36
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Yeah, and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
So you are of the opinion that when a Nation gives it's word, via a treaty, that it is OK to then turn around and break that word, i.e. treaty? You see nothing wrong with that at all?
... the following kinda ...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

... flies in the face of denying these rights by continuing to buy and sell part of the population in order to maintain it in all the horrors of Chattel slavery.
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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:45
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Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... the following kinda ...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

... flies in the face of denying these rights by continuing to buy and sell part of the population in order to maintain it in all the horrors of Chattel slavery.
Heck, I'd not even got to the slavery part, I was still on our actions against the Indians....
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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:49
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Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Immaterial what they did between each other. Answer the question I ask. Do you believe that when a Nation gives it's word its word via a treaty then it is under NO obligation what so ever to abide by the treaty.

Yes or No.
it does relate to the OP....so in the context of the OP--it didn't matter that the US didn't abide by the treaty
..the NAs didn't abide by it either....if you read about NAs, they didn't have a supreme chief whose decisions were obeyed like in the US....if some of the tribe didn't want peace, they went their own way/etc
...and--as quoted--the NAs were not native to those lands....it's like making a contract with a squatter that doesn't own the land--therefore the contract is null and voided
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Old 25 Aug 17, 21:50
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I know, ...

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Heck, I'd not even got to the slavery part, I was still on our actions against the Indians....
... I was merely helping you out.
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