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  #1  
Old 22 Aug 17, 02:41
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Statue toppling: UK version

Surprise. Grauniad wonk advocates taking down Nelson's Column...
Quote:
It is figures like Nelson who immediately spring to mind when I hear the latest news of confederate statues being pulled down in the US. These memorials – more than 700 of which still stand in states including Virginia, Georgia and Texas – have always been the subject of offence and trauma for many African Americans, who rightly see them as glorifying the slavery and then segregation of their not so distant past. But when these statues begin to fulfil their intended purpose of energising white supremacist groups, the issue periodically attracts more mainstream interest.

The reaction in Britain has been, as in the rest of the world, almost entirely condemnatory of neo-Nazis in the US and of its president for failing to denounce them. But when it comes to our own statues, things get a little awkward. The colonial and pro-slavery titans of British history are still memorialised: despite student protests, Oxford University’s statue of imperialist Cecil Rhodes has not been taken down; and Bristol still celebrates its notorious slaver Edward Colston. When I tweeted this weekend that it’s time we in Britain look again at our own landscape, the reaction was hostile.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y?CMP=soc_3156
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  #2  
Old 22 Aug 17, 02:56
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They never will stop .

OTOH, maybe we could start : I am sure there are in Europe statues of (in)famous Muslims . Why not remove them ?
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Old 22 Aug 17, 03:04
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Did the IRA take down a monument to Nelson in Dublin?

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Old 22 Aug 17, 03:12
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British Council article from two years ago - criticizing ISIS destruction of cultural monuments
Quote:
Societies have long sought to protect and preserve their cultural heritage, for reasons ranging from education to historical research to the desire to reinforce a sense of identity. In times of war and conflict, cultural identity and cultural heritage become all the more important. Buildings, monuments and symbols of culture that speak of shared roots acquire an increased significance. Accordingly, they can become targets of violent and oppressive action that seeks to destroy the symbols valued by enemies or the iconography associated with alternative faiths and traditions.

There is a form of extremism that sees the very existence of sites that are celebrating other people’s faiths or cultures as a challenge, as the above quotation by Mullah Wakil about the Buddhas of Bamiyan indicates.

People in Europe sometimes think they are very far removed from those attitudes, but they wouldn't have to look too hard to find equivalents close to home, and not too long ago. As a child, I was regularly taken to churches and cathedrals in France and noticed that most of the statues adorning them were headless. Revolutionaries were perhaps not destroying them as a religious statement as much as a political one, but it was wanton destruction.

In the UK, you don’t have to go back to the reformation to find examples of churches, monasteries and symbols of faith being destroyed for sectarian reasons. There are also many other relatively recent examples of the deliberate destruction of another’s culture. In 1942, Nazi Germany had ordered the Baedeker Blitz, air raids on cultural sites in the UK in response to the destruction of Lübeck's old town in the same year.

There is probably a number of similarities between the attitudes of the Third Reich and ISIL when it comes to cultural diversity. I am not sure that I recognise the notion that ISIL make themselves look even 'more ridiculous' by these actions, as is sometimes said. They inspire horror and fear, and I guess that is part of the point. It is ruthless in its mission to present its way as an uncomplicated, non-compromised and pure form of Islam. Its adherents wish to remove not only symbols of other faiths, but also anything valued by those who follow Islam in a different way. References to pre-Islamic history that could distract the faithful are therefore anathema.
https://www.britishcouncil.org/voice...aterial-damage
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Old 22 Aug 17, 09:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
They never will stop.
When you say they, do you mean one journalist writing in the Guardian?
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Old 22 Aug 17, 14:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Did the IRA take down a monument to Nelson in Dublin?

Pruitt
Well they blew the top off it. Most of the damage was done when the Army blew up the rest of it rather than knocking it down.

I would have left it there; it's part of our shared history. I would take down statues to Cecil Rhodes though. He was a despicable person who wrought murderous destruction on a continent.

Most of the Churches in Ireland were destroyed by Cromwell, the big ones were taken by force from the Catholics and changes to Anglican Churches (I'm not sure what the difference is between the two; something about the Pope and holy bread and, laterally gays and women).
Yep, the Brit's were great at destroying Statues and Churches. Later on they just stole nice statues and diamonds and other stuff and put it in their museums and crown jewels.
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Old 22 Aug 17, 15:21
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It will once the start shooting these assholes.

Afua Hirsch? Let me guess....



Bingo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljadw View Post
They never will stop .

OTOH, maybe we could start : I am sure there are in Europe statues of (in)famous Muslims . Why not remove them ?
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Old 22 Aug 17, 16:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
Later on they just stole nice statues and diamonds and other stuff and put it in their museums and crown jewels.
Care to elaborate?

Paul
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Old 22 Aug 17, 22:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFKvsNixon View Post
When you say they, do you mean one journalist writing in the Guardian?
Left wingers want to remove the statue of Columbus in Barcelona.

In Germany, Muslims have destroyed dozens of statues in churches......
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Old 23 Aug 17, 03:47
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There is a group in the UK, usually young, usually students, often black, on permanent outrage, hyper-sensitive to racism.

There was a recent push, which included a supporting vote by the Oxford Students Union, to have the statue of Cecil Rhodes taken down as part of a wider move to 'decolonise' the ciriculumn. The last I heard, the Uni stood their ground and did not remove it, but there was a lot of fuss at the time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...es-statue.html
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Old 23 Aug 17, 04:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
Care to elaborate?

Paul
Not from us; we'd bugger all left by then.
I was thinking more about the shopping trips you guys did in Egypt, the Middle East and India etc.
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Old 23 Aug 17, 04:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape2Victory View Post
There is a group in the UK, usually young, usually students, often black, on permanent outrage, hyper-sensitive to racism.

There was a recent push, which included a supporting vote by the Oxford Students Union, to have the statue of Cecil Rhodes taken down as part of a wider move to 'decolonise' the ciriculumn. The last I heard, the Uni stood their ground and did not remove it, but there was a lot of fuss at the time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...es-statue.html
Even by the standards of the time Rhodes was an odious character. He's got so much blood on his hands I think removing a statue of him would just count as good taste rather than decolonisation. I don't know if the Belgians have statues of Leopold the Second but he's come under the same category.
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Old 23 Aug 17, 04:48
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Quote:
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I don't know if the Belgians have statues of Leopold the Second but he's come under the same category.
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Old 23 Aug 17, 04:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
Even by the standards of the time Rhodes was an odious character. He's got so much blood on his hands I think removing a statue of him would just count as good taste rather than decolonisation.
I think you have Cecil Rhodes confused with Shaka Zulu!

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Old 23 Aug 17, 04:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
Not from us; we'd bugger all left by then.
I was thinking more about the shopping trips you guys did in Egypt, the Middle East and India etc.
No Irish involved then ?
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