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  #61  
Old 13 Aug 17, 06:19
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Originally Posted by RichardS View Post


Yeah, but not WWII vintage I'm afraid.


Probably wouldn't hold a Tiger, though.....
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  #62  
Old 13 Aug 17, 09:28
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Originally Posted by BELGRAVE View Post
Which only goes to show how stupid the German leadership were in getting themselves into such a position in the first place.
So, in the end, what was their military competence worth ?
a lot of the Germans/leadership/many generals did not like hitler and did not think it was smart to go to war/etc
..but they either resigned/were ''kicked out''/hanged/etc
Beck, Blomberg, Fritsch, Canaris, etc
...the generals didn't know how far the Nazis would go...correct?
their system of government/media/etc was nothing like America's or Britain's
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  #63  
Old 13 Aug 17, 12:36
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Garand vs Mauser?

Did that at a range. Won with the Mauser but his gun broke a spring... Just saying simple is sometimes best...
Sometimes, yes, but which gun would you rather go to war as a Grunt with?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The German Artillery was outstanding. The Americans had more and outshot the Germans.

Pruitt
I have to disagree with that.
The German 105mm and 150mm guns were humble performers compared to the competition from the USA and the USSR, and those were the workhorse guns of all the armies back then.
The reason the Americans outshot them is because we had a vastly superior organization and some remarkably skilled operators. Linking upwards of 40 batteries together is no mean feat, and when you combine that with 'time on target' shooting, you have the best weapon on the field.
The Russians were no slouches either. When it came to basic artillery, they always seemed to be able to make lighter guns with a longer range than anyone else. From an engineering point of view, that is exactly what you want in artillery.

The Germans also had their unique little Infantry guns, so-called because these were cannon issued directly to the Infantry. The idea what that these (relatively) small guns would always be in the thick of it, instead of out of touch somewhere in the rear.
The problem was, they weren't much good for direct fire, and they weren't much better than mortars when it comes to firepower. The 150mm gun, for example, fired a 62-pound shell, the normal thing for that caliber is closer to 100 pounds.
They got wise as the war went on, and copied the Soviet 120mm mortar.
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  #64  
Old 13 Aug 17, 12:45
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There was also the Ju 322 Mammut glider...



But, the Germans did try to load a Pz IV in it and the tank fell through the bottom... so... I think a Tiger is out of the question.
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  #65  
Old 13 Aug 17, 18:34
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Having been involved in military modeling since I was a teenager and been somewhat sickened to see the predominance of German aircraft (mainly 109s and 190s) and tanks (Tiggers and Painters) at modeling contests, I have asked modelers who specialize in that kind of thing and usually get either gas ("We need to know about the weapons we defeated") or bluster ("They were the biggest and baddest, dude!"). My theory is what I call the "T.rex theory" (Tyrannosaurus rex is beloved of small boy dino fans): The German armaments were big, scary and dead.
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  #66  
Old 13 Aug 17, 18:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
There was also the Ju 322 Mammut glider...



But, the Germans did try to load a Pz IV in it and the tank fell through the bottom... so... I think a Tiger is out of the question.
No that was a Pz III that fell though the floor. Only one Ju 322 flew and only just at that. It was near impossible to steer.
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  #67  
Old 13 Aug 17, 18:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
Simple, with the numbers. The allies had more of everything and the victory still wasn't an easy one.
As we say in East Texas, "It's pretty hard to beat an old boy that just keeps on coming."
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  #68  
Old 13 Aug 17, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiree Clary View Post
Having been involved in military modeling since I was a teenager and been somewhat sickened to see the predominance of German aircraft (mainly 109s and 190s) and tanks (Tiggers and Painters) at modeling contests, I have asked modelers who specialize in that kind of thing and usually get either gas ("We need to know about the weapons we defeated") or bluster ("They were the biggest and baddest, dude!"). My theory is what I call the "T.rex theory" (Tyrannosaurus rex is beloved of small boy dino fans): The German armaments were big, scary and dead.
Bf 109 was numerically the most important fighter of axis so that is justified.I would love to see more panzer iii and iv but that rarely happens

German weapons were neither the biggest or scariest, strangest maybe
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  #69  
Old 13 Aug 17, 19:00
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I suspect that the German fighters get built because there is a much greater range of snazzy colour schemes to apply.
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  #70  
Old 13 Aug 17, 19:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post

I have to disagree with that.
The German 105mm and 150mm guns were humble performers compared to the competition from the USA and the USSR, and those were the workhorse guns of all the armies back then.
The reason the Americans outshot them is because we had a vastly superior organization and some remarkably skilled operators. Linking upwards of 40 batteries together is no mean feat, and when you combine that with 'time on target' shooting, you have the best weapon on the field.
The Russians were no slouches either. When it came to basic artillery, they always seemed to be able to make lighter guns with a longer range than anyone else. From an engineering point of view, that is exactly what you want in artillery.
The main advantage of US artillery was first of all the quantity of shells fired and the control of the sky. Organization was less important compared with those two.

The Red Army was many troubles and became really good only at the war's end but still had his deficiencies.
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  #71  
Old 13 Aug 17, 21:39
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The advantage, if any, of American Artillery was in the design of 105 and 155 howitzers were new. In 1941 and 1942 we went to war with French 75's and 155's. The 155 Gun, the Eight Inch and the 240 Howitzers were also new designs. American Industry was able to produce enough to eventually replace the older pieces. The Germans lost so many pieces they had to use captured weapons and WWI inventory.

The American 105 was based on the German 105 produced late in WWI. It did not start large scale production until about 1940. Some National Guard Artillery was shipped to Australia with 75's. They later converted to 105's, except for one battalion lost on Java.

As already mentioned the American Artillery was able to tie in from telephones and radios to saturate a target. Having motor transport also helped. The 101st Airborne benefited in Bastogne when two Corps Artillery units were chased inside the lines.

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  #72  
Old 13 Aug 17, 21:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiree Clary View Post
Having been involved in military modeling since I was a teenager and been somewhat sickened to see the predominance of German aircraft (mainly 109s and 190s) and tanks (Tiggers and Painters) at modeling contests, I have asked modelers who specialize in that kind of thing and usually get either gas ("We need to know about the weapons we defeated") or bluster ("They were the biggest and baddest, dude!"). My theory is what I call the "T.rex theory" (Tyrannosaurus rex is beloved of small boy dino fans): The German armaments were big, scary and dead.
Must confess that I did that until I turned to 20th Century warships and found that the mixture of magnificent ships from all the different Nations was something that made doing Planes and Tanks uninteresting. I am no longer a model builder due to lack of space lcm1
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  #73  
Old 13 Aug 17, 22:50
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I am reminded of a person saying: Amateurs study tactics and the professionals study logistics. Not sure who said it, but it's true. It's fortunate the Nazi leadership studies tactics.
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  #74  
Old 14 Aug 17, 04:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
I am reminded of a person saying: Amateurs study tactics and the professionals study logistics. Not sure who said it, but it's true. It's fortunate the Nazi leadership studies tactics.
Alexander the Great is reputed to have said that if he suffered a defeat the very first to get the chop would be his logisticians but although it is oft quoted I've never fond any reference as to when he said it and to whom.

In the case of Germany it was more a case of not understanding economics rather than logistics. If you don't have the materiel in the first place logistics becomes a secondary problem.
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Old 14 Aug 17, 05:54
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No that was a Pz III that fell though the floor. Only one Ju 322 flew and only just at that. It was near impossible to steer.
Oh, come on !

It's well-known that the two complete Ju 322s (the second prototype never flew) and the 98 in various stages of construction made an invaluable contribution to the Reich's war effort - as firewood.
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