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  #1  
Old 11 Aug 17, 00:04
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Mythification of WW2 german military

I'm sure this has been discussed before.But would like to get opinions of others
A lot of people consider the german military and its weapons almost supernatural
bismarck best battleship
panzers best tanks
etc
What is the reason for this ? why this tendency to exaggerate the capabilities of german weapons ?

Last edited by nastle; 11 Aug 17 at 00:10..
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  #2  
Old 11 Aug 17, 00:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
I'm sure this has been discussed before.But would like to get opinions of others
A lot of people consider the german military and its weapons almost supernatural
bismarck best battleship
panzers best tanks
etc
What is the reason for this ? why this tendency to exaggerate the capabilities of german weapons ?
I think in most cases it was the men that used the equipment more than the equipment itself. lcm1
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  #3  
Old 11 Aug 17, 00:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcm1 View Post
I think in most cases it was the men that used the equipment more than the equipment itself. lcm1
it is and that is much more justified by i always see this perception amongst people that german WEAPONs were better

not talking about ww2 history buffs but general public
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Old 11 Aug 17, 01:08
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Originally Posted by nastle View Post
it is and that is much more justified by i always see this perception amongst people that german WEAPONs were better

not talking about ww2 history buffs but general public
Early war success and a lot of hyperbole.

The reason for their early victories was that they had the best trained army and tactics that used them to the best advantage. The most visible/photogenic part of the formula was the large equipment - tanks and battleships. The well-trained German soldier is indistinguishable from the opposing French, British, or Polish soldier because the skill is not apparent except by the results.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 01:13
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Originally Posted by NoPref View Post
Early war success and a lot of hyperbole.

The reason for their early victories was that they had the best trained army and tactics that used them to the best advantage. The most visible/photogenic part of the formula was the large equipment - tanks and battleships. The well-trained German soldier is indistinguishable from the opposing French, British, or Polish soldier because the skill is not apparent except by the results.
I think the Allies blamed their earlier losses to german technological and material superority

funny thing 2 yr I met 4 guys at polish fest dressed as cavalry troops , they were repeating the same old story of their courageous cavalry charging "tiger tanks " with lances and sabres.
When I asked if polish army had any tanks they flatly denied , I had to show them the OOB on my phone which consisted of 7TP a very capable tank of its time.
They got abrasive and dismissed it as propoganda
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Old 11 Aug 17, 01:40
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Is the warrior spirit a factor?
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Old 11 Aug 17, 01:50
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German Tanks and the Bismarck Class were not the best equipment in the war. German Infantry was better led at the beginning of the war. I think a lot of the "love" is because the Germans had better books wrote after the war. The scuttlebutt is the Germans were much more efficient at war making, but how then did the less efficient Red Army, British and Americans win?

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Old 11 Aug 17, 05:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
German Tanks and the Bismarck Class were not the best equipment in the war. German Infantry was better led at the beginning of the war. I think a lot of the "love" is because the Germans had better books wrote after the war. The scuttlebutt is the Germans were much more efficient at war making, but how then did the less efficient Red Army, British and Americans win?

Pruitt

Simple, with the numbers. The allies had more of everything and the victory still wasn't an easy one.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 05:47
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The Germans were superior because they were the smartest country in Europe during the interwar years especially 1930 and upwards. They developed a doctrine based on WWI experiences of all the combatants and then built war machines to suit their doctrine.

The German infantry were trained to the hilt in rapid maneuver using combined arms to thrust through their enemies on narrow fronts and once penetration was successful encircle the enemy.

The Allies won because

1. Germany had to strike quick and secure other countries for resources which they did not have to keep their war machine churning. This came to a halt outside Moscow in November 1941..In December 1941 Hitler declared war on the United States and sealed the doomed fate of his people.

2. Once they declared war on the USA the Germans had to fight 3 world superpowers on 2 fronts.

3. The German intelligence and logistical long term strategy was a complete disaster.

4. The USA's industrial capability to produce weapons of war and all of their natural resources, which, when added to the Russian and British outputs basically had the Germans looking like an infant sheep surrounded by 3 wolves by the end of 1943.

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Old 11 Aug 17, 06:07
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Quote:
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they were repeating the same old story of their courageous cavalry charging "tiger tanks " with lances and sabres.
Some folks just cannot relinquish their dearest myths.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 06:09
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Quote:
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but how then did the less efficient Red Army, British and Americans win?
Massive industrial capability and access to resources, at least in America.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 06:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Knispel View Post
The Germans were superior because they were the smartest country in Europe during the interwar years especially 1930 and upwards. They developed a doctrine based on WWI experiences of all the combatants and then built war machines to suit their doctrine.
More myth I'm afraid.

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Early in the war it was the common belief of the American public that the German Siegfrieds of Hitler's Blitz rode forth to battle on swift tanks and motor vehicles. But the notion of the mechanized might of the German Wehrmacht was largely a glamorized myth born in the fertile brains of newspapermen. Actually, the lowly horse played a most important part in enabling the German Army to move about Europe. US Army intelligence bulletin
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Of the 322 German Army and SS divisions extant in November 1943, only 52 were armored or motorized. Ibid
Of the German tanks deployed in the Battle of France about 60% were Pz I and II inferior to many of the Allied tanks with thin armour and relatively lightly armed. Pz III and IVs only amounted to about 25% Czech tanks made up most of the rest.

With a policy of Blitzkrieg one has to win quickly or one is doomed to loose in the long run. There is also a risk that you may become the ones who end up encircled - as the German high command feared with the British and French counter attack - it's fundamentally a risky approach unless you have adequate resources which Germany did not. Germany was gambling - basically on their enemies' ineptness as much as anything. They won the bet with the Battle of France when France caved in but lost it in 1941 when the Soviet Union did not.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 07:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
I think the Allies blamed their earlier losses to german technological and material superority

funny thing 2 yr I met 4 guys at polish fest dressed as cavalry troops , they were repeating the same old story of their courageous cavalry charging "tiger tanks " with lances and sabres.
When I asked if polish army had any tanks they flatly denied , I had to show them the OOB on my phone which consisted of 7TP a very capable tank of its time.
They got abrasive and dismissed it as propoganda
Polish cavalry were trained in anti tank tactics and used steel cored AT ammunition. This was capable of penetrating the thin armour of Pz I and IIs which constituted the overwhelming bulk of the tanks that invaded Poland. As you say charging tanks with edged weapons is a myth. The Vickers derived 7TP was far superior.

What did for the Poles was the failure to keep their air-force up to date. When it came into service in 1934 the PZ11c monoplane was the most potent fighter in European skies but by 1939 it was obsolete The Luftwaffe quickly ruled the Polish sky and the Polish army was naked to ground attack and dive bombing. It should be noted that the German dive bombing and ground attack tactics were developed by the Spanish Nationalists in the SCW and picked up from them by the Condor legion.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 07:17
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Also the Poles were seriously outnumbered and attacked from multiple directions before they were fully mobilised.
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Old 11 Aug 17, 09:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Polish cavalry were trained in anti tank tactics and used steel cored AT ammunition. This was capable of penetrating the thin armour of Pz I and IIs which constituted the overwhelming bulk of the tanks that invaded Poland. As you say charging tanks with edged weapons is a myth. The Vickers derived 7TP was far superior.

What did for the Poles was the failure to keep their air-force up to date. When it came into service in 1934 the PZ11c monoplane was the most potent fighter in European skies but by 1939 it was obsolete The Luftwaffe quickly ruled the Polish sky and the Polish army was naked to ground attack and dive bombing. It should be noted that the German dive bombing and ground attack tactics were developed by the Spanish Nationalists in the SCW and picked up from them by the Condor legion.
lances and spears used to attack tiger tanks ...yes
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