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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Orders of Battle

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Orders of Battle Orders-of-battle, TO&E's, and related information on who fought where and what they brought to the battle.

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  #1  
Old 26 Jul 17, 20:08
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Current combat units US Army Korea

Was doing a little research on Korean Peninsula balance of forces. Is this really all we have in SK?


8th US Army

* * * * * * *2nd Infantry Division

* * * * * * * * * * 210th FA Brigade

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *6/37 FA

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *1/38 FA

* * * * * * * * * **Rotational ABCT (2ABCT, 1st Cavalry Division)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * ***1/5 CAV

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *1/8 CAV

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *1/9 CAV

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *4/9 CAV

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *3/16 FA

I know the 2 Stryker Brigades of 2ID are at JBLM under the administrative control of 7ID. 8th Army has no army level assets? This is sad.
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  #2  
Old 26 Jul 17, 22:02
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The 8th Army has a bunch of ROK units and US Reserve units attached. IX Corps HQ used to have an Artillery Brigade from the Utah National Guard. If you feel up to it, look into KATUSA units attached to the 8th Army. There also used to be a couple of Helicopter Brigades but they were probably stood down. Much of my data is dated all the way back to the 1980's. I had an interest in the 8th Army because my neighbor across the street was an E-8 serving in Korea. Some of the units in Japan were with the 8th Army.

I remember crawling out of an M-41 tank at a local Army display at a shopping mall. There was the German wife and the three little Grosze's. The oldest girl hollered, "Look there is Richard!". It was probably the early 60's (1964?). She went on to be a Doctor.

If we ever get back to shooting in Korea, expect the 7th Infantry, 25th Infantry and maybe the 10th Mountain to get shipped there. Maybe the 3rd Marine Division as well. Most of Korea is steep hills and Mountains so don't expect any Heavy Divisions to go there. The ROK's keep a Light Infantry Reserve force of about one million men.

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  #3  
Old 27 Jul 17, 01:20
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The 8th Army falls under United States Forces Korea (USFK)
  • Eighth United States Army; Headquarters: Yongsan Garrison, Korea; authorized about 20,000 Soldiers
  • Seventh Air Force; Headquarters: Osan Air Base, Korea; authorized about 8,000 Airmen
  • Commander Naval Forces Korea (CNFK); Headquarters: Yongsan Garrison, Korea; authorized about 300 Sailors
  • Marine Forces Korea (MARFORK); Headquarters: Yongsan Garrison, Korea; authorized about 100 Marines
  • Special Operations Command Korea (SOCKOR): Headquarters: Camp Kim, Yongsan, Korea; authorized about 100 members
So official total is 28,500 personnel

Under 8th Army you also have:
  • 19th Sustainment Command (Expeditionary), Daegu
    • 94th Military Police Battalion
    • US Army Materiel Support Command Korea, Camp Carroll
    • Headquarters & Headquarters Company
    • 6th Ordnance Battalion
    • 25th Transport Battalion
    • 498th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion
    • Korean Service Corps Battalion, Camp Kim
  • 35th Air Defense Artillery Brigade, Osan Air Base
  • 501st Military Intelligence Brigade, Yongsan Garrison
  • 1st Signal Brigade, Yongsan Garrison
  • 65th Medical Brigade, Yongsan Garrison
  • Headquarters and Headquarters Battalion, Yongsan Garrison
    • Headquarters and Headquarters Company
    • Headquarters and Headquarters Detachment
    • United Nations Command Honor Guard Company
  • 4-58th Airfield Operations Battalion, Camp Humphreys
  • 106th Medical Detachment, Camp Red Cloud, Yongsan, Camp Humphreys, Osan Air Base, and Camp Walker
  • Korea Field Office, Yongsan Garrison

Under 2ID control also is the Combat Aviation Brigade:
2nd Infantry Division Combat Aviation Brigade ("Talon Brigade") based at Camp Humphreys, South Korea
  • Headquarters and Headquarters Company (HHC) "Warrior Knights"
  • 2 Avn Rgt 2nd Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment (Assault) (UH −60) "Wild Card"
  • 2 Avn Rgt 3rd Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment (General Support) (CH-47D, UH-60) "Nightmare"
  • 2 Avn Rgt 4th Battalion, 2nd Aviation Regiment (Attack) (AH-64D) "Death Dealer"
  • US Army Quartermaster Regimental 602nd Support Battalion (Aviation) "Warhorse", Task Force Ready
  • 1st Squadron, 17th Cavalry Regiment is the Air Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron, 82d Airborne Division stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina - Rotational CAV under operational command of Combat Aviation Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division in Camp Humphreys

As well as a sustainment brigade:
2nd Infantry Division Sustainment Brigade based at Camp Carroll, South Korea - provides sustainment support to all units in the Republic of Korea[LIST]
  • Headquarters & Headquarters Company (Camp Carroll)
  • Special Troops Battalion
  • 194th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion (Formerly the 194th Maintenance Battalion)
  • Headquarters & Headquarters Company (Camp Humphreys)
  • 46th Transportation Company (Camp Casey)
  • 61st Maintenance Company (Camp Stanley)
  • 348th Quartermaster Company (Camp Humphreys)
  • 520th Maintenance Company (Camp Humphreys)

Under 210 Fires Brigade you also have:
  • 70th Brigade Support Battalion
  • UN Command Security Battalion Joint Securing Area
  • F Battery (Target Acquisition) 333rd Field Artillery Regiment
  • 579th Signal Company

A Divisional Headquarters & Headquarters Battalion

Also an independent CBRN battalion:
  • 23rd CBRNE Battalion

Also, just last year the US and ROK have integrated the
ROK Army 16th Mechanized Infantry Brigade
  • 19th Armored Battalion
  • 136th Mechanized Infantry Battalion
  • 137th Mechanized Infantry Battalion
It will be included in division structure as part of US - ROK force integration project, although not directly attached to the division[28]. However, during wartime the 16th Mechanized falls under 2ID command.

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  #4  
Old 27 Jul 17, 08:31
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Left out

I should have qualified my post. all I was talking about was combat arms (other than ADA) units that are actually currently present. I know we have all those support units. I meant those are the only combat units on the peninsula.
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Old 31 Jul 17, 02:35
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We need to look at reconfiguring the 2 brigades of the 2nd ID into mechanized BCTs and move them back to South Korea. Secondly we should look reforming the 3rd Marine Tank Battalion given that the 3rd Marine Division is the closest ground reinforcements available to the 8th Army.
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Old 31 Jul 17, 10:46
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Originally Posted by Merkava188 View Post
We need to look at reconfiguring the 2 brigades of the 2nd ID into mechanized BCTs and move them back to South Korea.
To what purpose? The ROKA is perfectly capable of defending the ROK against the NKPA. If they aren't willing to maintain a force capable of meeting their only significant threat, what US interest is served by subsidizing their independence against a third rate threat. The only thing we need in the ROK is counter-WMD capability. Keeping a rotational BCT is more than sufficient.

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Secondly we should look reforming the 3rd Marine Tank Battalion given that the 3rd Marine Division is the closest ground reinforcements available to the 8th Army.
The 3rd MARDIV is a farce- it has only 2/3s of its combat elements, and it continues to exist because the USMC has a great propaganda machine and got Congress to legally mandate a force structure that no longer makes sense (if it ever did).

Being close to Eighth Army is only relevant if you are going to permanently position shipping on Okinawa, too- otherwise, you're still waiting for shipping to arrive from wherever. And, AFAIK, training in Okinawa is extremely limited, particularly for tanks. Better to send well-trained tanks than poorly trained tanks, even if it takes a little longer. And if the shipping comes from the west coast anyway, the difference between loading at San Diego and shipping to Korea is negligible from moving ships from San Diego to Okinawa, loading in Okinawa, and then shipping to Korea.
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Old 01 Aug 17, 01:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmcvicar View Post
I should have qualified my post. all I was talking about was combat arms (other than ADA) units that are actually currently present. I know we have all those support units. I meant those are the only combat units on the peninsula.
Well, I get you're reasoning but you can't discount the pogues for being automatically unqualified to be combat ready. Yeah, they may be trained for a different job, but that doesn't always mean that those that are trained for combat are always more proficient. Take Marines, I'm betting the majority of the Marine staff in Yongsan have not probably recently gone to a field exercise that included days of rucking and making improvised fighting positions each night, but that doesn't mean they don't know how. Sometimes those higher ranking officers have been or still are combat arms officers that simply were tasked to fill a billet. Usually combat experience and training helps promotion and opportunities like being stationed in the middle of one of the busiest cities in Asia. Just because they get increased rank, pay and responsibility doesn't mean every officer forgets where they come from or how to accurately kill the enemy, "every Marine is a rifleman."

The Special Operations Command in Korea is probably also like the Marine attachment but more relaxed and sophisticated. They have rank but don't let regulations hamper them from getting the mission done. They are SF guys that do a lot of bilateral SF planning and exercises between US and South Korea and whoever else joins. They can shoot as expected, but would prefer to wait until you join your platoon or company so that they can call in artillery or an air strike before you even knew they were there.

The attack and reconnaissance helicopter battalions are every bit of combat arms as the grunts on the ground. Also have the handful of infantry guys in every HHC company at brigade and division level that are usually hand selected as the best of their best as part of a detail or special duty like honor guard or a commander's driver. Not sure if there are scout, mortar or weapons sections at that level.

As far as support personnel at the front, the non-combat arms guy can be brought up to speed in the event he or she needs to shoot, move and communicate. We all know the basics, but its best to stay out of the way, watch and emulate what they do. Pass ammo, grenades, water, food up to the guys needing it. We are only as good as our weakest link and if they can't keep up, retrain or replace. When it comes down to threatening members of our squad, it doesn't matter if they are a pogue attached, they aren't going to let THEIR pogue get killed.

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Originally Posted by 82redleg View Post
Being close to Eighth Army is only relevant if you are going to permanently position shipping on Okinawa, too- otherwise, you're still waiting for shipping to arrive from wherever. And, AFAIK, training in Okinawa is extremely limited, particularly for tanks. Better to send well-trained tanks than poorly trained tanks, even if it takes a little longer. And if the shipping comes from the west coast anyway, the difference between loading at San Diego and shipping to Korea is negligible from moving ships from San Diego to Okinawa, loading in Okinawa, and then shipping to Korea.
Sasebo isn't far and has 1 Wasp-class LHD, 2 Whidbey Island-class LSDs, and 1 San Antonio-class LPD. There's probably some sealift capability at Guam. Kadena Air Base on Okinawa has an Airlift Squadron capable of getting light units and equipment to Korea quickly. You have other Airlift Squadrons at Yokota Air Base, Osan Air Base, Korea and Andersen Air Base, Guam. Navy C-2's and Marine Corps V-22's could also make the trip from Kadena to Osan. You could even fly Navy and Marine Corps CH-53's and refuel them halfway. As far as training goes, I thought some Marine battalions were rotated through Okinawa from across the Corps?
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Old 01 Aug 17, 02:56
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The set up for the 3rd Marine Division is bizarre. The Division only has four Infantry Battalions on Okinawa. Two of the Fourth Marine Battalions are stationed with the other two divisions. I had thought for years the division had an Infantry Regiment on Hawaii and two Infantry Regiments on Okinawa. Must be political because I can see any reason for this.

The Law says the Marines must have three active divisions, only eight Infantry Regiments is a bit silly.

Maybe a ROK Marine Regiment is attached if the division goes to Korea?

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Old 01 Aug 17, 07:06
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The set up for the 3rd Marine Division is bizarre.
Yes, it is.

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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The Division only has four Infantry Battalions on Okinawa. Two of the Fourth Marine Battalions are stationed with the other two divisions.
All three battalions of the 4th Marines are permanently based at Camp Pendleton. The 4th Marines regimental headquarters is at Okinawa, and controls rotational battalions deployed there though the Unit Deployment Program. They could be battalions from 4th Marines or from one of the other regiments.

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...
Maybe a ROK Marine Regiment is attached if the division goes to Korea?

Pruitt
I don't know of any plan for that. The ROKMC has two divisions and two separate brigades. All have definite missions that don't fit with augmenting USMC units, although the two marine corps do train together and maintain a close working relationship.
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Old 16 Aug 17, 20:59
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First of all South Korea is going to need our help if they're to defeat the North Koreans. Secondly we should look at asking the JGSDF to use their tank training facilities for any U.S.M.C armored unit that we decide to base in Japan. As for the 3rd tank Battalion if we can't base the whole unit in Japan let look at trying to base a company in Japan,another in South Korea and the other half of the Battalion in Alaska or Guam .
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