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Warfare Through the Ages Roman, Greek, Japanese, etc. Topics cover all manner of pre-modern warfare and empire-building and crushing.

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  #1  
Old 30 Oct 17, 13:22
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The Legend of Saint George and the Dragon

There are many cites out there that discuss The Legend of Saint George and the Dragon..I would like to discuss this topic here. The popular modern TV series Game of Thrones which in so many ways reminds myself of the middle ages.....portraits dragons in a positive fashion. Yet in some folklore Dragons were the enemy, as was the case wrt St George and the Dragon.



The most famous legend of Saint George is of him slaying a dragon. In the Middle Ages the dragon was commonly used to represent the Devil. The slaying of the dragon by St George was first credited to him in the twelfth century, long after his death. It is therefore likely that the many stories connected with St George's name are fictitious.

There are many versions of story of St George slaying the dragon, but most agree on the following:

A town was terrorised by a dragon.
A young princess was offered to the dragon
When George heard about this he rode into the village
George slayed the dragon and rescued the princess



http://projectbritain.com/stgeorge2.html

Here are some portraits of St George slaying the Dragon. Such portraits have served as an inspiration to men and women of European history when the going gets tough.



https://www.google.com/search?q=Sain...TQnQSNZAcip5M:
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  #2  
Old 30 Oct 17, 13:28
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Correction - all the stories about St George are fictional. There is even doubt as to whether he ever existed.

Dragon slaying myths are much earlier than the Middle Ages. The Greeks had Perseus who rescued Andromeda by slaying two dragons and the St George tale is likely a reworking of this by a lazy bard. But even earlier is the Phoenician Cadmus who also had a dragon to kill.
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Last edited by MarkV; 30 Oct 17 at 13:39..
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Old 30 Oct 17, 15:11
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To save a mayd St George the dragon slew
A pretty tale, if all is told be true.
Most say there are no dragons, and 'tis said
There was no George. Pray God there was a Mayd.

Last edited by jf42; 30 Oct 17 at 20:40..
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Old 30 Oct 17, 17:18
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There's one school of thought that claims that the princess didn't want to be rescued.
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Old 30 Oct 17, 20:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
..all the stories about St George are fictional..
Oh yeah? Well just take a look at Dragon Hill where George trashed the thing (below) and see the bare patch on top!
One theory holds that the dragon was in fact an alien creature that used acid for blood which burnt off the grass to reveal the chalk underneath when George stuck it, ample evidence that the encounter took place..

Princess- "Help, help!"
George- "Chill babe"
Dragon- "I got no beef with you mate, ride on out and no hard feelings"
George- "You're going down boy!"



https://www.mountain-forecast.com/pe...Hill-Uffington

Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 31 Oct 17 at 03:02..
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Old 30 Oct 17, 21:58
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The myth of St George appears to have become popular for one main reason.

The Welsh Red Dragon defeated the English White Dragon in a certain Vortigern myth.

Come the 12th century, this Red Dragon was disposed of by an 'English' knight.

When one considers the context of the subject matter, the timing of the original myth is important. The fact that the Normans were having trouble with Wales at that time is all that we need to know. Propaganda is the key.
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Old 31 Oct 17, 05:30
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St George was venerated as a soldier saint of Palestine by Christian 'crusaders' but he only adopted as patron saint by Edward III when he created the Order of the Garter in 1350. St George did not achieve his present status of patron saint of England till the mid-C16th, making way for Shakespeare's celebrated lines- "Cry 'God for Harry, England and Saint George'."

I believe the dragon-slaying legend relating to St George dates from at least two centuries earlier than the C12th.

The story of the two dragons of Dinas Emrys, preserved in the 'Historia Brittonum' texts dated to the C9th, relates to the Britons and the Saxons, although quite possibly much more ancient in origin. Ironically, it was a Norman author, Geoffrey of Monmouth, who popularised the tale. It may have been a later Welsh tradition that associated the story with the Plantagenet conquest of Wales.

Last edited by jf42; 31 Oct 17 at 06:01..
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Old 31 Oct 17, 07:24
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Over here it's St-Michael, that's the most famous dragon slayer ?

Patron saint of Brussels, and many other communities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_...atholic_Church

Quote:
Revelation 12:79, "Then war broke out in heaven; Michael 8 and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back, but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, 9 who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it."
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Last edited by Snowygerry; 31 Oct 17 at 09:43..
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Old 31 Oct 17, 08:13
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The dragon as we see it depicted in Christian iconography tended to be a beast from northern mythology, now fairly standardised as a large, spiky, winged lizard, (fire breathing optional). There may be some late influence from the Far East in the standard image.

It's moot point what beast, presumably imaginary, is being referred to in Biblical texts and hagiographies translated as 'dragon.'

Drakōn in the Greek of Revelations seems to be commonly associated with a 'serpent' as distinct from a horned beast that speaks like a dragon, (both linking to traditional Christian representations of the Devil and Satan in Europe). Drakons in Greek myth seem most commonly to be large serpents with lethal coils. Some are winged.
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Old 31 Oct 17, 08:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jf42 View Post
The dragon as we see it depicted in Christian iconography tended to be a beast from northern mythology, now fairly standardised as a large, spiky, winged lizard, (fire breathing optional). There may be some late influence from the Far East in the standard image.

It's moot point what beast, presumably imaginary, is being referred to in Biblical texts and hagiographies translated as 'dragon.'

Drakōn in the Greek of Revelations seems to be commonly associated with a 'serpent' as distinct from a horned beast that speaks like a dragon, (both linking to traditional Christian representations of the Devil and Satan in Europe). Drakons in Greek myth seem most commonly to be large serpents with lethal coils. Some are winged.
Many of the dragons in ancient mythology appear to have been sea monsters partly amphibious.
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Old 31 Oct 17, 10:00
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Indeed, the sea being a more productive habitat for actual encounters with large, intimidating fauna than the earth or sky- not that bears, crocodiles, constrictors or even the mild-mannered vulture might be thought of as cuddly.
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Old 31 Oct 17, 11:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
Oh yeah? Well just take a look at Dragon Hill where George trashed the thing (below) and see the bare patch on top!
One theory holds that the dragon was in fact an alien creature that used acid for blood which burnt off the grass to reveal the chalk underneath when George stuck it, ample evidence that the encounter took place..

Princess- "Help, help!"
George- "Chill babe"
Dragon- "I got no beef with you mate, ride on out and no hard feelings"
George- "You're going down boy!"



https://www.mountain-forecast.com/pe...Hill-Uffington
What a party pooper that Mark V can be, does that guy ever have anything nice to say? I wonder what else he said, its probably better if I dont now considering his not so kind reply history to me.

Much of the world looks up to St George who slew the dragon..Its that type of folklore that has motivated British men and women to stand for their country.

I believe in St George and so have millions of others throughout the ages and no one can take that away from us.
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Old 31 Oct 17, 11:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Correction - all the stories about St George are fictional. There is even doubt as to whether he ever existed.

Dragon slaying myths are much earlier than the Middle Ages. The Greeks had Perseus who rescued Andromeda by slaying two dragons and the St George tale is likely a reworking of this by a lazy bard. But even earlier is the Phoenician Cadmus who also had a dragon to kill.
Oh I had to see this. Mark V St George is your countries hero. And please, dont say "Correction" to something that is debatable..I and many others disagree with your view above.

English is your first language Mark? You said

Correction - all the stories about St George are fictional. There is even doubt as to whether he ever existed.

No sir, you have not corrected anything. I and the millions of other St George fans disagree with you. You must know folks look up to St George, what are you trying to tear down their beliefs? Your countries own hero is St George. Here is a recruit poster for Brits circa WW1,




So if all the stories about St George are fictional, why would there be doubt as to whether he existed? If all the stories are fictional then indeed George would never have existed yet you say there is a chance that George existed. W/e, your entitled to provide your words just as everyone else is. You wont ever convince me though to agree with your views on St George. Of course your views are welcomed even if they attempt to ruin the party, To each their own, your free to provide your views and so are the others.

The Dragon slaying is one thing, the existence of St George is another.
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Old 31 Oct 17, 11:41
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I don't see why we have to accept your often ridiculous views at face value
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Old 31 Oct 17, 11:43
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This drawing (on a vase) from ancient times shows a beast with some very dragon like features. Hero versus dragon is a very old myth. The vase depicts the Greek demi god rescuing a female sacrifice from the monster

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/P28.1.html
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