HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Alternate Timelines

Notices and Announcements

Alternate Timelines The plausible "what if's" of military history.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 26 Jun 17, 17:52
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,692
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
In our timeline Germany was able to fight on multiple fronts for a number of years without imploding. I'm not sure that a state which can displace and kill people by millions, which has at his service a dozen of conquered countries and led by fanatics, can economically imploding.

Concerning Stalin, there are suggestions that he wanted to make a Brest-Litovsk styled peace.
Obviously you have not read both Tooze and Edgerton. Iirc, Nazi Germany was going to implode 1947 or so. OTOH, as long as Britain doesn't give up, it would win, and without fighting. Even without military input from the USA or USSR. Hindsight is everything.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 26 Jun 17, 17:54
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is online now
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,429
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I understand that the output was low on the totem pole, but it was a great deal to the Germans. It was as if the Red Army wanted to make sure the Germans did not get the area.

The Oil shipments went into Germany on trains that were set to German gauge.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 26 Jun 17, 17:56
Desiree Clary's Avatar
Desiree Clary Desiree Clary is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: Susan
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,038
Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600]
Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
Churchill did not seem to believe that at the time. The over-extension of Germany was in the USSR, not North Africa.
If you believe Manchester and Reid (and I do) in The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill: Defender of the Realm, 1940-1965 https://www.amazon.com/Last-Lion-Chu.../dp/B0076DEPUK

WSC said he didn't believe it, but that was wartime propaganda. Of course, WSC never doubted that Britain would win, anyway, AFAIK
__________________
Will no one tell me what she sings?--
Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
For old, unhappy, far-off things,
And battles long ago:
-William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 26 Jun 17, 17:58
Emtos's Avatar
Emtos Emtos is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Anton
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charleroi
Posts: 11,276
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Obviously you have not read both Tooze and Edgerton. Iirc, Nazi Germany was going to implode 1947 or so. OTOH, as long as Britain doesn't give up, it would win, and without fighting. Even without military input from the USA or USSR. Hindsight is everything.
But what is implode ? How something can implode ? I don't remeber any exemple when a country imploded in this way.
__________________
There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 26 Jun 17, 18:02
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is online now
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,429
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Well some people might say that the old Soviet Union imploded on itself. The Somalis also did.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 26 Jun 17, 18:06
Emtos's Avatar
Emtos Emtos is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Anton
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charleroi
Posts: 11,276
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Well some people might say that the old Soviet Union imploded on itself. The Somalis also did.

Pruitt
Implosion of Soviet Union had nothing to do with economics. Don't kow about Somali but I suspect the same applies to them.
__________________
There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 26 Jun 17, 18:08
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,692
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
But what is implode ? How something can implode ? I don't remeber any exemple when a country imploded in this way.
Germany imploded early in 1945. The fact that the rate of Nazi undesirables were being slaughtered in smaller quantities in 45 than 44 speaks volumes.

Britain expected Germany to implode June 45. All its logistical calculations were based on that fact. Money talks. Read the once secret UK cabinet papers to know this is true.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 26 Jun 17, 18:13
Emtos's Avatar
Emtos Emtos is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Anton
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charleroi
Posts: 11,276
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Germany imploded early in 1945. The fact that the rate of Nazi undesirables were being slaughtered in smaller quantities in 45 than 44 speaks volumes.

Britain expected Germany to implode June 45. All its logistical calculations were based on that fact. Money talks. Read the once secret UK cabinet papers to know this is true.
Germany imploded in early 1945 ?! At time they were invaded and bombed from all sides, lost enormous quantities of men, lost their industrial capacities. I will certainly not call it "imploded".
__________________
There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 26 Jun 17, 18:33
Nick the Noodle's Avatar
Nick the Noodle Nick the Noodle is offline
General of the Forums
Wales
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
CWiE 1939-45 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Tin Pot Noodle
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Land of the Red Dragon
Posts: 17,692
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Nick the Noodle has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emtos View Post
Germany imploded in early 1945 ?! At time they were invaded and bombed from all sides, lost enormous quantities of men, lost their industrial capacities. I will certainly not call it "imploded".
Germany was expected to lose on a certain date. All of Britain's resources were geared towards that eventuality. The Nazi's lost quicker than expected. Read the now available British cabinet archives, kept secret for years.

The Nazi earlier loss certainly saved hundreds of concentrate camp inmate lives. Considering that these saved lives were lefties, Jews, journalists, liberals et al, I might be correct that some present US voters might consider this a bad thing.
__________________
How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 26 Jun 17, 18:54
Emtos's Avatar
Emtos Emtos is offline
General of the Forums
Belgium
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Anton
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charleroi
Posts: 11,276
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700] Emtos is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Germany was expected to lose on a certain date. All of Britain's resources were geared towards that eventuality. The Nazi's lost quicker than expected. Read the now available British cabinet archives, kept secret for years.

The Nazi earlier loss certainly saved hundreds of concentrate camp inmate lives. Considering that these saved lives were lefties, Jews, journalists, liberals et al, I might be correct that some present US voters might consider this a bad thing.
Germany was losing because their armed forces weredestroyed and their territories being occupied by the Allied armies. Without those, Germany would be standing. There was no way for it to destroy himself unless a great conflict iside high elites of the Reich.
__________________
There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #71  
Old 26 Jun 17, 19:14
grosnain's Avatar
grosnain grosnain is offline
Brigadier General
France
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Blunders Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rennes
Posts: 2,287
grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200] grosnain is walking in the light [200]
Good thread, but no one talk about basic facts as number of stuff available to go to east : for exemple 88mm shells and batteries and the servants.
Seeing the table above lend lease did not gave to USSR any help to stop the germans in October 1941 (as we knew), which is the beginning of the end for Hitler.
Also there are some decisions : in july41 Hitler shift allocations from army to navy.

For my part i think the germans (NAZI elite and General Staff) did not have the "knowledge" to run the course of this kind of huge war which imply many skills out of pure military field.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 26 Jun 17, 19:45
Desiree Clary's Avatar
Desiree Clary Desiree Clary is offline
Lieutenant General
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Real Name: Susan
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,038
Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600]
Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600] Desiree Clary is simply cracking [600]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Germany was expected to lose on a certain date. All of Britain's resources were geared towards that eventuality. The Nazi's lost quicker than expected. Read the now available British cabinet archives, kept secret for years.

The Nazi earlier loss certainly saved hundreds of concentrate camp inmate lives. Considering that these saved lives were lefties, Jews, journalists, liberals et al, I might be correct that some present US voters might consider this a bad thing.
I am a lifelong Republican and I consider this a good thing; and know nobody who would think otherwise.
__________________
Will no one tell me what she sings?--
Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
For old, unhappy, far-off things,
And battles long ago:
-William Wordsworth, "The Solitary Reaper"
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 26 Jun 17, 21:56
Urban hermit's Avatar
Urban hermit Urban hermit is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Jim
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wild West
Posts: 8,546
Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700] Urban hermit is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
A lot to write and to quote, too much for this topic, I think. Ok, if we take fuel production than we've got the following stats:
Total oil production in the USSR in 1941 - 33 million ton
Of which a minor part was exported and the bulk was consumed inside the country.
Oil consumption in Germany in 1941 - 8.1 million ton. From own production, export and usage of previously accumulated stocks.
Ostensibly the ratio is 4:1. However if we look at gasoline then the situation is different.
Aviation gasoline: Soviet production - 1270 thousand tons/German production, export and stocks usage 1260 thousand tons
Motor gasoline: Soviet production - 2980 thousand tons/German production, export and stocks usage 2540 thousand tons.
Approximately equal status.
If we take purely military consumption in 1941 then corresponding numbers are
Aviation gasoline - 830 thousand tons USSR/1160 thousand tons German
Motor gasoline - 1130 thousand tons USSR/1609 thousand tons Germany

In the years that followed Germany continued to step up own fuel production bother from synthetic plants and from domestic oil wells until strategic air campaign took its toll in mid-1944. As a result consumption of fuel in 1942-1943 was at least not smaller than in 1941. On the other hand the Soviet oil and fuel production dropped to the 60% of the per-war level. So whereas Western Allies were superior in availability of gasoline over Germany the Soviet Union simply wasn't.
Those synthetic products were not up to the standards of today's synthetic products., one of the problems the Luftwaffe faced was the reduced efficiency of its aircraft engines due to low octane, as you indicated the problem began in 43 and progressively degenerate for the Nazi regime.
__________________
Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

Last edited by Urban hermit; 27 Jun 17 at 01:34..
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 27 Jun 17, 06:44
Kurt Knispel's Avatar
Kurt Knispel Kurt Knispel is offline
Major
United_States
 
Real Name: Paul
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NY by way of Ireland
Posts: 1,145
Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100] Kurt Knispel has demonstrated strength of character [100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
Germany was expected to lose on a certain date. All of Britain's resources were geared towards that eventuality. The Nazi's lost quicker than expected. Read the now available British cabinet archives, kept secret for years.
Is your conclusion that the UK could have defeated Germany alone without the USA or Hitler's mistake of invading The USSR?...if so, and if this is what Tooze concludes in his book, I have some questions..

1. Hitler had already conquered NWE and could exploit all of the resources available in these occupied territories including their financial institutions and the finances of all of their civilians. Financial problem was solved by these actions at least for the time being don't you think?

2. Hitler's army in North Africa would have been much larger then the 2 and a half divisions down there if he did not, as I mentioned above, invaded the USSR.They could have built refineries there and been drilling for oil. IMHO they would have sent at least 50 divisions there and drove the Brits eastwards and out of the Middle East, sweeping across the Suez Canal and into the oil rich territories. IIRC, Hitler had already had discussions with the Arabs concerning their arch enemies, the Jews, and we could all conclude how that must have went. Would theses actions not have secured Germans petrol problems?

As far as the industrial and agricultural subjects, I think they would have found away to address these areas enough to feed themselves and their occupied countries as well as using labor, forced or paid, from these countries to bolster industrial output on a scale to cope with the U.K. for a very long time. What is your opinion on this?




Quote:
The Nazi earlier loss certainly saved hundreds of concentrate camp inmate lives. Considering that these saved lives were lefties, Jews, journalists, liberals et al, I might be correct that some present US voters might consider this a bad thing.
I am a Republican and hate leftist liberals who think that everything should be the way that they want it to be and laws must be passed to assure this but I do not condone executing innocent people, although I know you meant that remark as humorous.

Regards,Kurt
__________________
Our world at Khe Sanh was blood, death, and filth with deafening gunfire and blinding explosions as a constant soundtrack...Barry Fixler
http://sempercool.com/
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 27 Jun 17, 09:02
ShAA's Avatar
ShAA ShAA is offline
General of the Forums
Russia
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 12,048
ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+] ShAA has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban hermit View Post
The question Russians should ask is, how well would the Russian army been if it had not been for Stalin's paranoia and his butchering of his own officer corps before and during the war?
They would've been as full of determination and resolve to fight to the bitter end as the ones who faced Hitler before them, like the French, for example. And I guess the French and the British also butchered their officer corps before the war and also had evil Commissars at their backs because they were defeated in 1940 just as easily?
__________________
www.histours.ru

Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.