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  #61  
Old 29 Jun 17, 18:38
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Or I could do so; Richelieu is a powerful battlewagon, but I've always been happy to take a small craft (or a destroyer tender, to give you gentlemen the legs you need to hang with the larger ships for the whole journey).

EDIT: Or we can simply hang tight with what we have, and the IJN-devil take the hindmost. Given the scarcity of larger ships in this part of the ocean, I suspect we'll get more escorts as replacements for the larger ships that don't make it.
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  #62  
Old 29 Jun 17, 19:05
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Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
I have not been able to find out who had the best radar among our ships, apparently that info isn't sexy enough for the usual sources.
Got any info on that?
I'm starting to think we don't actually have any in December of 41.
The radars available on the various ships for search and detection are all long metric wave sets using A scopes and fade charts for altitude estimation.



The Edinburgh has the advantage of having a fighter direction center (yes, the British call it something different) aboard unlike the other ships.



While that is one on a RN Carrier, the cruiser version is a more austere variant, but serves the same purpose.

The US cruiser and battleship would have just a radio channel or two available to vector fighters in the CAP along with a Fighter Direction Officer aboard using the radar information and a maneuvering board. The US hadn't gotten as sophisticated as the British at this at the end of 1941.

So, SC and Type 279 are roughly equal in performance. The N. Carolina might... might... have an SC-2 aboard at this time. That set integrates IFF into it (the little rectangular antenna above the main antenna on the SC radar).

The set on the Ericsson would also be little more than an early warning set.

SC also has some capacity for detecting surface targets, but this is limited and highly dependent on the skill of the operator. The Yagi antenna of Type 279 isn't sufficiently discriminating enough for this. Targets will get lost in the background clutter.

The Mk 3 and 4, along with the Type 282 -286 radars for fire control rely on previous visual detection and supplement, not replace, optical fire control at this time.
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  #63  
Old 29 Jun 17, 19:15
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How would DEM compare to any of these, TAG?
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  #64  
Old 29 Jun 17, 19:32
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OOC: it's part of the challenge......the die has been cast. If your ship is lost, or damaged to the point that you choose to send it to dry dock, you can consider a new vessel from the pool which I'll post after this episode and will have some rotation. For now, you made your one open choice.....and just like real captains, you'll have to fight the ship you've got.
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  #65  
Old 29 Jun 17, 20:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khryses View Post
How would DEM compare to any of these, TAG?
DEM uses two yagi antenna arranged in a box. One for transmit, the other for receive. The transmit antenna has about a 180 to 270 degree field of operation and DEM was intended as a surface search set, and for ranging on targets. It's similar to the EC3 Gufo the Italians developed.
It operates at about 1 meter in wave length, possibly a bit less (maybe down to 75cm). That makes it useful for surface detection. But, against that, the two antenna are manually rotated meaning the search rate is low.

I suspect, that DEM was made from what was available in North Africa along with components smuggled out of France. The French pre-war radar experimental sets all used parabolic reflectors that focused the beam better. I'd say that was beyond what the Vichy could accomplish during the occupation.

You can just make out the two antenna for this system in this photo.



They are the two sets of squarish dots at the mast head and a second similar set a bit lower and forward of that set.
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  #66  
Old 29 Jun 17, 21:32
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Okay... so it seems that the British ship has the best set-up for calling an vectoring the Fighters... thank goodness for small favors, eh?
I'd say that leaves the calling and use of them up to Edinburgh, without cluttering up the command net with requests and all, agreed?

And the CAs and BBs have good radar for surface combat, except for the Russian. He should be paired up ... but with who? I'd normally say the other CA, but Now Orleans would obviously work more smoothly with the N. Carolina. Are there any French on had that speak Russian or vis a vi?
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  #67  
Old 29 Jun 17, 23:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
Okay... so it seems that the British ship has the best set-up for calling an vectoring the Fighters... thank goodness for small favors, eh?
I'd say that leaves the calling and use of them up to Edinburgh, without cluttering up the command net with requests and all, agreed?

And the CAs and BBs have good radar for surface combat, except for the Russian. He should be paired up ... but with who? I'd normally say the other CA, but Now Orleans would obviously work more smoothly with the N. Carolina. Are there any French on had that speak Russian or vis a vi?
Natural historical allies!

Assuming Marzin can get over his prejudices, Fredegrad can pair up with the Richelieu.

Thanks for the analysis TAG, I thought it was installed in Richelieu before she left France (as opposed to the Jean Bart) but wasn't clear on how it actually worked.
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  #68  
Old 30 Jun 17, 01:17
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It definitely looks like the DEM's fitted to the Richelieu and Jean Bart were one-of-a-kind devices and almost certainly of local manufacture. The Richelieu's was about equivalent to the British Type 79 and would have provided little more than air warning, and might have produced a return on a surface ship in some conditions.
The Richelieu's set used one transmit and two receiving antennas of a different design than the Jean Bart's. These were much larger, indicating a longer wave length. The Strasbourg received yet a different version in 1941 with two transmit and two receive antennas that were smaller, like on the Jean Bart.
I get the distinct impression each set was custom made for the ship.
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  #69  
Old 30 Jun 17, 02:21
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Richelieu's D.E.M. looks like it was likely French-built (although it has 2-m wavelength).

The excerpt from Wiki (translated from Dumas) is:

Quote:
In April 1941, Richelieu was the first French battleship to be fitted with French early radar, designated as "electro-magnetic detector," Détecteur Electro-Magnétique (D.E.M.), which had been shipped from France in November 1940 by the large destroyer Terrible. Operated on a 2-meter wavelength, with the two emission antennĉ fitted on the fore tower yards and the two reception antennĉ on the aft tower, its range was 80 kilometres (50 mi) against aircraft flying over 1,500 metres (4,900 ft), 50 km (31 mi) at 1,000 m (3,300 ft), and 10 to 20 km (6.2 to 12.4 mi) for ships.
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  #70  
Old 30 Jun 17, 22:02
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Captain Fredegrav* (misspelled in one post) says, "I don't mind pairing up with the Richelieu so long as Marzin can get over his pride. I'm not here to boast about who's better. Our goal is to win the war at any cost, after all we're the smaller ship and have no radar. Give us the directions and we will provide fire.
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  #71  
Old 01 Jul 17, 05:06
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Seeing all the captains now assembled, and "Showboat" docked and the lines being run to pump fuel into her bunkers, Air Vice Marshal Brooke-Popham finishes up the meeting.

"Gents, you must sail within 24 hours on this mission, and before you sail I'll need to know which of your number has been appointed Commodore, I don't much care who it is, Naval traditions not being my strongest suit. I'll also need to know a general timeframe in which you will be requesting the air support, so as to ensure that the pilots and planes are ready.

Feel free to use this room as long as you need, the Officer's mess is across the garden."

With that the air marshal leaves.

OOC: Game START will be 7/4/17.....I'll expect to have an initial plan and a Commodore by then, along with a general timeframe for air support requests as a part of the plan.

First Phase resolution tenatively 7/6/17 after 1200hrs EST. Planned phases for 2 per week, though may drop to 1 if phases are in heavy combat.
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Old 01 Jul 17, 21:07
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OOC: Game START will be 7/4/17.....I'll expect to have an initial plan and a Commodore by then, along with a general timeframe for air support requests as a part of the plan.
Oh, we have to schedule the Buffalos ahead of time? Well, they won't be able to help us at Kota Bharu, they don't have the range.
Having them on stand-by for our return trip might be best, they would certainly be able to reach us by the time we get down by Kuantan.
Or, am I reading their Range the wrong way?

Commodore... looks like it us up to me & Pruitt. Shall we vote?

Something about Air Power, the US ships have these, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_SOC_Seagull

They can carry some bombs, so they could be useful in the attack on Kota Bharu. Bombing those airfields just before dawn might just keep us alive.

What sort of planes do the others carry?
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Old 01 Jul 17, 21:44
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I think the US Cruisers do. The NC has Kingfishers, 2 of them if I'm not mistaken.
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  #74  
Old 01 Jul 17, 21:59
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I vote for the Ex!

I think we can get the Buffaloes to at least make it to the invasion beaches. I think we should schedule them over head in relays starting at 15 minutes before dawn. Don't forget that planes will have daylight before the light hits the surface! What I don't want to see is bombers overhead before I can see the beach!

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Old 01 Jul 17, 22:37
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I vote for the Ex!

I think we can get the Buffaloes to at least make it to the invasion beaches. I think we should schedule them over head in relays starting at 15 minutes before dawn. Don't forget that planes will have daylight before the light hits the surface! What I don't want to see is bombers overhead before I can see the beach!

Pruitt
Well, thanks!

Now, what I am seeing is that between three US ships we have at least 10 aircraft that can carry bombs. Four that I know of are staying behind at Singapore, but they are still ours to use. They could be helpful scouting ahead during the Daylight part of our trip without having to slow down to retrieve the ship-board ones... but there is something they can do the night before we arrive at Kota.
How about some night-time nuisance raids, to deprive the Japanese of sleep and keep them on edge all night long.
They may even feel like sleeping late...

The problem is, I can't tell if "range" given for these planes is actually "radius of action".
If it is radius, good to go.
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