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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus

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Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus Post-Soviet Russia and some neglected smaller neighbors.

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  #1  
Old 01 Jun 17, 11:00
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Black Sea Air Crash

Enquiry findings to the crash that killed all those musicians are out. Blame is pinned on that old perennial killer - pilot error. Not terrorism, not mechanical failure, no missile - pilot error. It appears that the pilot became spatially disorientated and ignored his instruments. It's being put down to tiredness - don't the Russian control duty hours for military pilots?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40117209
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  #2  
Old 01 Jun 17, 12:00
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First topic:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=174969
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Not terrorism
No signs of explosives, the black box recorded that the plane was intact when it touched water.
Quote:
no missile
The same.
Quote:
not mechanical failure
No records in black boxes, no reports from the crews to the ground.
Quote:
pilot error
From the black box the pilot made the plane to dive into the sea from the 213 m height. May be he wanted to commit suicide like that German guy, I don't know. In any case there was no rational explanation for his actions.
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Old 01 Jun 17, 12:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
First topic:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=174969

No signs of explosives, the black box recorded that the plane was intact when it touched water.

The same.

No records in black boxes, no reports from the crews to the ground.

From the black box the pilot made the plane to dive into the sea from the 213 m height. May be he wanted to commit suicide like that German guy, I don't know. In any case there was no rational explanation for his actions.
Didn't you actually bother to read anything? the enquiry came up with an explanation - the pilot lost spatial awareness - i has been known to happen beforfe.
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Old 01 Jun 17, 13:06
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How on earth was he allowed to take off if he was unable to get to the proper runway to begin with? Assuming this part is true "Experts quoted by the daily said Maj Volkov was already feeling unwell on the ground - he had had trouble getting the plane on to the correct runway for take-off." Co-pilot should have stopped him then and there. Then again it was a military flight so deference to the rank could make that more difficult thing to do than on civilian flights.
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Old 01 Jun 17, 13:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Didn't you actually bother to read anything? the enquiry came up with an explanation - the pilot lost spatial awareness
I thought it was sarcasm. You, guys, like various nonsensical conspiracy theories in anything concerning Russia after all. Ok, you've got the final version. How it happened that a disoriented men was allowed to fly - I don't know, but someone must be punished definitely.
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Old 01 Jun 17, 13:27
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Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
I thought it was sarcasm. You, guys, like various nonsensical conspiracy theories in anything concerning Russia after all. Ok, you've got the final version. How it happened that a disoriented men was allowed to fly - I don't know, but someone must be punished definitely.
The disorientation takes place in the air
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Old 01 Jun 17, 14:27
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He reportedly behaved strangely even before the take-off.
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Old 01 Jun 17, 15:09
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Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
He reportedly behaved strangely even before the take-off.
Which he would do if suffering from fatigue - don't you read anything before posting?
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Old 01 Jun 17, 16:31
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Which he would do if suffering from fatigue - don't you read anything before posting?
Frankly, I don't understand what's you point.
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Old 01 Jun 17, 17:39
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Isn't there a Copilot on that plane? If so and the pilot was incapacitated why didn't he take over? I don't buy this explanation... My thought is FOD. Perhaps they got a bird strike or two? Those can be quite deadly...
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Old 01 Jun 17, 19:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Isn't there a Copilot on that plane? If so and the pilot was incapacitated why didn't he take over? I don't buy this explanation... My thought is FOD. Perhaps they got a bird strike or two? Those can be quite deadly...
Maybe they polished off a liter of vodka together...........
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Old 02 Jun 17, 04:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Isn't there a Copilot on that plane? If so and the pilot was incapacitated why didn't he take over? I don't buy this explanation... My thought is FOD. Perhaps they got a bird strike or two? Those can be quite deadly...
The problem is that the pilot wasn't incapacitated but disorientated and wouldn't realise it. Its an old problem fist noticed by RAF flying instructors in the 1920s training pilots in instrument flying. The pilot under the hood could become convinced that the aircraft was in a different attitude that it was despite what the instruments were saying. He might think that they were climbing when in fact they were in a dive. If this happened at low altitude the co pilot might not have time to realise something was wrong. Stress or tiredness can bring it on.

Major bird strike would have left some trace on the flight recorders
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Old 03 Jun 17, 01:29
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Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
Frankly, I don't understand what's you point.
I don't understand it either, there is a weird note of triumph in the OP... as if somebody had said it was terrorism somewhere, and not its' time to exonerate the muslims once again.
DID anyone say anything like that?
Should anyone care?

Meanwhile, more strange behavior from another part of Europe -
https://translate.google.com/transla...ngen-g-r-n-got

http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/world/354744

Just gets weirder and weirder, doesn't it?
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Old 03 Jun 17, 06:53
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Originally Posted by The Exorcist View Post
I don't understand it either, there is a weird note of triumph in the OP... as if somebody had said it was terrorism somewhere, and not its' time to exonerate the muslims once again.
DID anyone say anything like that?
Should anyone care?

Meanwhile, more strange behavior from another part of Europe -
https://translate.google.com/transla...ngen-g-r-n-got

http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/world/354744

Just gets weirder and weirder, doesn't it?
Well it was suggested on ACG
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Old 06 Jun 17, 13:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
First topic:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=174969In any case there was no rational explanation for his actions.
Actually there is. The Spatial Disorientation mentioned is a specific condition that happens to pilots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

I suspected it from the beginning but did not speculate in the original thread. The conditions were ripe for it, right after takeoff, over water, and if I recall correctly low light. And that is before factoring in any condition on the pilots part such as illness, fatigue, or intoxication.

And as to the questions of why the co-pilot didn't take over, this can happen fast, and getting to an unrecoverable point in it can also happen fast.


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