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Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

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  #91  
Old 20 Sep 17, 23:41
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Yeah, there's a lot of rehash of the same old clips- It's the original content I'm hoping for but it really slid backwards tonight for me.
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  #92  
Old 21 Sep 17, 00:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
You know there is a white world (open press) and a black world (classified clandestine and covert)?

Have you worked for any length of time in the black world?
And the point is? If your not Dark you aren't qualified to have an opinion?
58k names on a wall because of one royal intelligence mis-interpretation after another, even when agents in the field were telling HQ it was a fail before the first Marine boot hit the beach.
I'm sure those guy don't care white from dark, how many of those guys would be watching their grandchildren today if the pukes state side would have listened?
From the CIAs own website,
Failures in Korean War
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...article06.html

Cuba
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...le-crisis.html

Vietnam War,
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...etnam-war.html

Iranian Revolution
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...e-iranian.html


Great track record, let's trust them again...
The justifications
Ah shucks,
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0000612718.pdf
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  #93  
Old 21 Sep 17, 01:17
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Even in a historical documentary post , the word leftist is used.
This place is gone totally nuts.
Some here have turn into fanatic rabbid dogs , just because it's trendy to be a baddass .Pitiful.
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  #94  
Old 21 Sep 17, 02:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Even in a historical documentary post , the word leftist is used.
This place is gone totally nuts.
Some here have turn into fanatic rabbid dogs , just because it's trendy to be a baddass .Pitiful.
Sticking to the subject of the documentary, I can say it brings up old feeling, memories of the times and all of the emotions. Being a teenage during that time, we just wanted to do teenage rights of passage stuff.
Our older brothers, and older brothers of our friends were joining up, others were protesting.
Me? I just wanted to drive my ride, work for scratch, take Nancy to the drive in and shake the rear bumper.
During my sophomore year my older brother came home, he had really changed, not happy joker he once was. He drank a lot of beer, got pissed off easily. Then me and my buddy's would high tail out of there. I noticed that even the older bigger bullies would avoid eye contact with him or just leave the area he entered.
His out one outlet was Flat track motorcycle racing, and he hated to lose, most guys just let him so he wouldn't blow his stack, after races we would hang at a bar, he would take over a pool table and loudly challenge all comers any poor sap that took him up would regret it.
He'd cheat, the Newby would say so, next thing we see is the new guy begging for his life, while Skip, my brother, held him by his face, with one hand, shoving the back of his head into a cinder block wall, while being him across his lower abdominal area with a pool cue.
When the military recruiting contingent came to campus Skip showed up in his Dress Blues,
Shook the recruiters hand for what seemed a long time, I saw the guys finger turning white and Skip whispered to him Semper FI MFer, If you try to enlist my little brother I will filet you,
He had issues, survivors remorse. It took that war 45 year to kill him but it finally did with copious amounts of self medication and self loathing.
I would give anything to have him here.now. if it were the boy who jumped at the chance to fulfill JFKS challenge,, he always felt lied to. Sold out and abandoned by the flag wavers and the Sunshine Patriots.
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Last edited by Urban hermit; 21 Sep 17 at 03:23..
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  #95  
Old 21 Sep 17, 03:02
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Grandson asked me why we burnt down poor people's homes.Because they were trying to kill us just don't seem good enough.I am whittled down by the wind.Screw you K.Burns
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  #96  
Old 21 Sep 17, 03:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
I think that it was Jimmy Carter who pardoned the draft-dodgers, and it was part of a deal in which Robert E Lee's US citizenship was restored. I guess that after Watergate and Gerald Ford's subsequent blanket pardon of Richard Nixon, a mood of reconciliation swept the nation.

Or something like that.
I stand corrected. Thank you for setting me straight.
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  #97  
Old 21 Sep 17, 04:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankwill View Post
Grandson asked me why we burnt down poor people's homes.Because they were trying to kill us just don't seem good enough.I am whittled down by the wind.Screw you K.Burns
Don't get me wrong : i don't judge what you did for your country.
Facts are that not only your grandson asked why you burnt poor peoples houses .(i know perfectly well that this is war with its train of misfortune)
The whole world asked you that at this very moment.

And let's say that if Burns had eluded this matter , would you had been totally satisfied ?

And does that make him a leftist ? He is one for sure , and proved his attraction for the dems frequently . But does that flows through his work ?
He portrayed the french occupation of Indochina with a harsh brush .Isn't that the truth ?
Does it upset me ?
May be , but truth is ,we treated these guys like untermenschen , it had to be said.

I didn't serve in Vietnam . You did . I fully understand your rejection for Burn's work , but millions of people enjoy it.
Do you know that , in France , his documentary , "The war" , is still for sale on a regular basis at the dvd stores since 2008 ?

Ah oui , c'est vrai....
We are a communist country
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  #98  
Old 21 Sep 17, 07:47
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Originally Posted by Greybriar View Post
I stand corrected. Thank you for setting me straight.
Yep, Nixon just tried to rig an election.
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  #99  
Old 21 Sep 17, 07:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban hermit View Post
And the point is? If your not Dark you aren't qualified to have an opinion?
It does mean you are operating on opinion, not personal experience, if one, and that means a vast majority, have not been in the 'wilderness of mirrors'.

A salient lesson in life is that nothing is impossible to the one who does not know or does not have to do it. Otherwise, one gets a lot of 'fake news/scholarship' for critical judgment.
Who do you think decides what gets released to the CIA Library for mass consumption?
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  #100  
Old 21 Sep 17, 11:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
It does mean you are operating on opinion, not personal experience, if one, and that means a vast majority, have not been in the 'wilderness of mirrors'.

A salient lesson in life is that nothing is impossible to the one who does not know or does not have to do it. Otherwise, one gets a lot of 'fake news/scholarship' for critical judgment.
Who do you think decides what gets released to the CIA Library for mass consumption?
I get it, but you have to admit, we do not expect failure from any other government agency. The Intelligence services are vital to us.
When the information provided by your agents can result in political intertia that can lead to military action, failure should not be an option. Imagine if the USPS motto was "failure is guaranteed"
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  #101  
Old 21 Sep 17, 11:30
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Originally Posted by Urban hermit View Post
I get it, but you have to admit, we do not expect failure from any other government agency. The Intelligence services are vital to us.
When the information provided by your agents can result in political intertia that can lead to military action, failure should not be an option. Imagine if the USPS motto was "failure is guaranteed"
Agree, to err is human. I should add, I routinely expect failure from the State Department. The fish-belly skin diplomats do not leave their cocktail circuit to talk with indigenous people. If one does, their contemporaries label them "going Arab".
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  #102  
Old 21 Sep 17, 11:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Even in a historical documentary post , the word leftist is used.
This place is gone totally nuts.
Some here have turn into fanatic rabbid dogs , just because it's trendy to be a baddass .Pitiful.
Not to beat you up. but as a veteran of that war, episode 4 is showing a very anti-us soldier slant.There is a subtle absence of any good that was done by US servicemen. The only side of the South Vietnamese shown was them fighting each other. Where is that old south Vietnamese man I worked with in our motor pool one day who had lost Two sons fighting the VC and NVA? Who still believed in America being there to help them win freedom?
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  #103  
Old 21 Sep 17, 11:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
Not to beat you up. but as a veteran of that war, episode 4 is showing a very anti-us soldier slant.There is a subtle absence of any good that was done by US servicemen. The only side of the South Vietnamese shown was them fighting each other. Where is that old south Vietnamese man I worked with in our motor pool one day who had lost Two sons fighting the VC and NVA? Who still believed in America being there to help them win freedom?
Good points, can't rep you yet, must spread it around.
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  #104  
Old 21 Sep 17, 12:10
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Well so far in my watching this documentary, I have come to a realization that it is still too early to get a full picture of the Viet Nam war. Emotions are still too dominant of those who were participants in the war and those anti-war and that includes Ken Burns. I wish he would have did this doc like the Civil War doc and let the "Real" historians both civil and military Historians talk about the war. There has been some interesting segments but I haven't seen or heard anything I didn't know about it yet. I have been fortunet and have met and known a lot of Viet Nam vets and read a few books. SO far I'm a little disappointed in this documentary.
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  #105  
Old 21 Sep 17, 12:44
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I get the feeling this really isn't for the informed or studied person- For someone who's depth of knowledge is "I saw Apocalypse, FMJ and Platoon" For those it would be quite an education.
Lets see how many times My Lai is used, already had 1 inclusion but I sense it will be useful again.

In my job I have met a lot of vets and I have to drag stuff out of them after convincing them "I'm a fan" they are still gun shy - it's quite painful it seems because I get the feeling they spent a lot of years hiding internally so no one would know where they had been as if it's a curse.
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