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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

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Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

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  #31  
Old 19 Sep 17, 08:54
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Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Watched the first episode on the Vietnamese channel hosted on Youtube ,with Vietnamese subs..
Anyway , i found it to be a cleaver explanation of how all this mess happened .
Regarding the Burn's leftist bias , as stated before , didn't saw it.
Maybe not a glaring example but.........many interviews from NLF,vietcong soldiers.........none from the ARVN.
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  #32  
Old 19 Sep 17, 09:31
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Good points, this has the most NVA interviews and comments I've ever seen in one docu before and I hope to see more of it. I am interested in their view. I also don't see the bias so much yet, but I certainly anticipate it. He may be planting the seeds early on here to make them more humanized and build a support for these poor humble souls hell bent on the same goal as anyone else, more power and control.
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  #33  
Old 19 Sep 17, 09:38
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Originally Posted by Urban hermit View Post
During WWII, Ho was our Allied and we knew damn well he was communist, OSS under the direction of William Donovan, the director of the OSS and close confidant of FDR had told his agents assigned to train and arm Ho that the US was not interested in supporting European colonialism. FDR had made this part of his platform in campaigns.
Truman faced a difficult situation after the end of the war, as pointed out in the first episode on Sunday, the spread of Soviet influence and control of Eastern Europe was seen as a great threat in the west and France under De Gualie leveraged that fear for the Truman administration to give in up on that promise from FDR.
There has been a little confusion and much debate about the Ho letter sent to Truman, I have read that Truman himself circle filed it, and have also read that his Sec. of State intercepted the letter and sand bagged them.
Both reasonable scenarios. But personally I doubt Truman was completely ignorant of the letters or thier content.
Truman was much more politically shrewd and savvy then his country hick " straight shooter" "The Buck Stops Here" image would have us believe.
His man concern was stopping the spread of communism.
Today the undeniable truth is that with the exception of North Korea, the communist nations that were such a threat the democracy for seven presidents, are our trading partners. China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos are all vacation destinations.
The Vietnam War was a lightning rod issue that divided a generation, and families. The emotions run the gambit, from resentment to guilt to outright distrust and alienation.


I hope that this documentary helps younger generations to understand the issues the lead us into the conflict, and the many dimensions to a very complex and controversial era.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. Being born in 1961 my memory starts when Johnson was in office with Truman and Eisenhower both being before my time. I'm anxious to see the rest of this story and documentary unfold. I have to agree this whole time of history and the Vietnam affair was far more complex and complicated than I ever knew even after all these years.

What I do know about Truman is what I've always heard; that he fired McArthur and it seems many people were very upset with this. They felt McArthur was right. I've never really been convinced I've ever known the real reason(s) Truman fired him but I don't want to snipe this thread and open that up in this thread right now.

Thanks again for the information and explanation.
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  #34  
Old 19 Sep 17, 09:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo63 View Post
I also don't see the bias so much yet, but I certainly anticipate it. He may be planting the seeds early on here to make them more humanized and build a support for these poor humble souls hell bent on the same goal as anyone else, more power and control.
Good comment and I'm at the same place basically right now but my wife picked up on a bias right from the start, but then again she always does. Her view is a lot of what you say in your last sentence here; desperate communists vying for more power. control, and domination.
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  #35  
Old 19 Sep 17, 09:53
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... we could also use you in your good suit when it comes to the same regarding M*A*S*H and Korea.
M*A*S*H*I*T was REMFs complaining about how bad war is.
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  #36  
Old 19 Sep 17, 09:56
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Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
Maybe not a glaring example but.........many interviews from NLF,vietcong soldiers.........none from the ARVN.
My thoughts as well.
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  #37  
Old 19 Sep 17, 09:58
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It's interesting how the troops have moved on while the politicals still chew on that gristle. I got this hat for doing a favor for a PAVN colonel.
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  #38  
Old 19 Sep 17, 10:06
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
It's interesting how the troops have moved on while the politicals still chew on that gristle. I got this hat for doing a favor for a PAVN colonel.
Holy F^^K........Ho is not dead. hes hiding in ST.Louis...............
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  #39  
Old 19 Sep 17, 10:07
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Holy F^^K........Ho is not dead. hes hiding in ST.Louis...............
Don't be Minh to me!
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  #40  
Old 19 Sep 17, 10:13
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
It's interesting how the troops have moved on while the politicals still chew on that gristle. I got this hat for doing a favor for a PAVN colonel.
Cool cover, it must have been a big favor!
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  #41  
Old 19 Sep 17, 10:18
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Cool cover, it must have been a big favor!
I got a pith helmet as well.

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  #42  
Old 19 Sep 17, 10:43
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That part about Truman never being shown Ho's letters.........I wonder who kept those hidden? or is that True? I always respected Truman and found one of his few faults being supportive of France in Vietnam.......
I didn't know that de Gaulle threatened to turn France communist if France wasn't supported in Viet Nam. I always knew that he was a sc*mbag, but that was low even by his standards. How he ever got to be the universally acknowledged spokesman for the French people is a testament to the gullibility of our political leadership -- and their voters.

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Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
Maybe not a glaring example but.........many interviews from NLF,vietcong soldiers.........none from the ARVN.
Couple of ARVN officers appeared in last night's episode 2.

Re Burns' leftist slant: I agree that Ken Burns trends left, but that criticism has to be tempered a bit. Compared to some doc film makers, Burns comes across as nearly reactionary. In the first episode of this Viet Nam doc, he's at least mentioned some of the divisions within the Viet Minh leadership over what level of military aggression cum brutality should have been pursued against their enemies, and that the harder elements won that internecine battle. In episode 2 Burns made no attempt to diminish the intimidation that villagers suffered at the hands of provincial NLF/VC types. And throughout his career Burns has proven to be more than wiling to allow non-left speakers to have their say without undue editing. So on a lefty scale of 1-to-10, with 1 being Jimmy Carter and 10 being Leon Trotsky, I'll give Ken Burns a 2.
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  #43  
Old 19 Sep 17, 12:20
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Here is what I noticed last night.Strategic hamlets,My duster track spent a week(1966) in one ,on the edge of the HoBo Woods to reinforce the Vietnam rangers who feared an attack coming from these woods.
The strategic hamlet was nothing more than a prison for displaced peasants who greatly feared the rangers who guarded the hamlets.The rangers would beat the inhabitants,men,women,children in front of us,and think it funny.It bothers me still that I did nothing to stop it.
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  #44  
Old 19 Sep 17, 12:29
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De Gaulle is an icon.Don't touch an icon Marc .Period.
Joking.He was the man of June the 18th ,1940, and the craftman of France's rebirth.That excepted , he was a sneaky politician, like they all are.
Macron excepted.
Joking too.
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  #45  
Old 19 Sep 17, 12:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRA View Post
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. Being born in 1961 my memory starts when Johnson was in office with Truman and Eisenhower both being before my time. I'm anxious to see the rest of this story and documentary unfold. I have to agree this whole time of history and the Vietnam affair was far more complex and complicated than I ever knew even after all these years.

What I do know about Truman is what I've always heard; that he fired McArthur and it seems many people were very upset with this. They felt McArthur was right. I've never really been convinced I've ever known the real reason(s) Truman fired him but I don't want to snipe this thread and open that up in this thread right now.

Thanks again for the information and explanation.
I don't want to sidetrack the subject either, but I feel it is impossible to understand fully the complex relationships of WWII between western democracies and communist resistance groups opposing Nazi and Japanese forces, and the post war events that reshaped the political landscape.
Ho was just one of many we supported with arms, money, training and advisors who worked closely with partisan groups. In France, Greece, Turkey, and in the Middle East and China as well as in what was then French Indonesia, the main resistance to our enemies were communists rebels. So while they were politically aligned with ideology opposed to capitalism they were also fighting for their independence from Fascist and at the same time political powers that had before the war been friendly to western democracy and capitalism. Communist Worker organizations had been springing up in Europe before WWII, the fact that many had already developed Underground and subversive groups that could blend into the fabric of everyday life made them invaluable to allied intelligence agencies.
This made for some very odd relationships, and after the war, those governments that had in many cases been forced into exile during the war, wanted to reclaim their nation and put the US and Great Britain in an unprecedented and uncomfortable position. Either continue to support communist leaders who had been loyal allies to our cause during the war, or support the formerly legitimate political leaders who did little during the war, but now either promised to stand against the spread of Soviet influence, or as in the case of De Gualie, threaten to abandon the WWII allies or offer no resistance to Soviet desires.
It becomes even more complex in China where the US literally supported both Nationalist and Communist forces. Anyone who resisted Japan found support from the US.
Forces serving under Ho are accredited with saving approximately 250 US airman during WWII.
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