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  #31  
Old 07 Jul 17, 21:30
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Can Americans be blamed for the Syrian War? Is it a direct effect of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, which your government supported?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
The US has caused all the current problems in the Middle East and the consequent mass migration. Invading Iraq because of Saudi terrorists bombing the Twin Towers? Perhaps Europe should make the US pay for the immigration problem?
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  #32  
Old 07 Jul 17, 21:33
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Probably a few Nazis in everyone's military.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
According to the link many in the German military dream of emulating their grandfather and great grandfathers.

Probably best that they have rubbish kit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39835609
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  #33  
Old 07 Jul 17, 21:40
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Because they are still part of NATO and need to pull their weight?

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Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
Where do you get this stuff from? Germany has a much smaller military than they did during the Cold War and the rest of Europe weren't concerned with it then, so why should they now?
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  #34  
Old 07 Jul 17, 22:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101combatvet View Post
Because they are still part of NATO and need to pull their weight?
Maybe you should read the complete exchange that I responded to because your comment seems to agree with what I said.
To paraphrase what went on--someone stated that other European countries were afraid if the German military got bigger than it is today. My response was that I doubted it because the German military was much larger during the West German/Cold War years and it never seemed to bother the rest of Western Europe when it was protecting them.
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  #35  
Old 07 Jul 17, 23:18
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I read it, my statement still stands true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johns624 View Post
Maybe you should read the complete exchange that I responded to because your comment seems to agree with what I said.
To paraphrase what went on--someone stated that other European countries were afraid if the German military got bigger than it is today. My response was that I doubted it because the German military was much larger during the West German/Cold War years and it never seemed to bother the rest of Western Europe when it was protecting them.
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  #36  
Old 09 Jul 17, 07:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101combatvet View Post
Can Americans be blamed for the Syrian War?
Yes, beyond doubt...

Quote:
Is it a direct effect of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, which your government supported?
UK supported it (Iraq invasion), as did France, Canada and many others, but I wouldn't call Syria's situation a direct result of it.
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  #37  
Old 11 Jul 17, 10:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javaman View Post
(...)
UK supported it (Iraq invasion), as did France, Canada and many others, but I wouldn't call Syria's situation a direct result of it.
Not France I think, as I remember it they were vehemently opposed to the second Iraq invasion as was most of Western Europe, except Britain.

Or Blair - to be precise.
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  #38  
Old 11 Jul 17, 11:17
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Desert Storm : goooood.
Iraki Freedom : baaaaad...
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  #39  
Old 11 Jul 17, 11:23
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Nomen est omen.

The Iraqis had their freedom and see what came of it, a storm in the desert once and again to keep them down would have sufficed
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  #40  
Old 11 Jul 17, 11:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javaman View Post

UK supported it (Iraq invasion), as did France, Canada and many others, but I wouldn't call Syria's situation a direct result of it.
Canada went out of its way to not support it. Chretien made the announcement of non-support to the House of Commons, to a cheering House.
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Old 11 Jul 17, 11:56
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Quote:
UK/Germany, Germany has more tanks, no towed arty, more fighters and attack aircraft, more rotatory wing than the UK. The navy is the only place that the UK as more ships. When it comes to quality it seems they are of the same quality.
The quality is far lower, readiness availability is terrible, spares are largely absent and training is at a far lower level. Look at spending per capital, levels of R&D, service and support, training funding as well as the actual models of equipment and weapons; tells a very different story.

The erroneous nature of top-level figures are legion; they would suggest that the Chinese Army is pre-eminent and that the DPRK is a major military power
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Old 11 Jul 17, 14:04
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Quality is far lower???

Seeing as how they both share a lot of the same equipment, except towed artillery I find it hard to buy that one or the other has a quality advantage. F35 might me the big advantage for the RAF.
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  #43  
Old 12 Jul 17, 10:12
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Quality is far lower??? Seeing as how they both share a lot of the same equipment, except towed artillery I find it hard to buy that one or the other has a quality advantage. F35 might me the big advantage for the RAF.
Yep; compare a Tiger with an Apache E, compare the Luftwaffe Typhoons with the RAF ones. Compare the systems / weapons cleared on both. No equivalent in AEW&C, refueling, ISR or UAS. Look at the actual models of Puma vs Ajax, the Bundeswehr Leopards vs. the Challenger 2s and the same 'can't be arsed' attitude seeps through most German military programmes. The Luftwaffe is sick to the back teeth of Airbus, but for political reasons they have to accept their under-performing, over-priced aircraft.

But, of course, the systems are useless unless the work and are manned. German readiness in most equipment areas? 50% on a good day. Investment in training? a fraction of the UK's. Experience in recent - very complex operations - pretty poor.

If you want a rough rule of thumb, divide German military expenditure by personnel or major systems and you will see where the issues lie.
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  #44  
Old 13 Jul 17, 21:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Desert Storm : goooood.
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Ah, true. All the French Soldiers I just saw in Kuwait made me believe they supported the Iraq adventure. The current French support is actually for Syria though.
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  #45  
Old 13 Jul 17, 21:28
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Canada went out of its way to not support it. Chretien made the announcement of non-support to the House of Commons, to a cheering House.
Ok, so Canada officially didn't support it, but did actually support it.

"Clandestine deployment of Canadian forces[edit]

According to the U.S. State Department, a total of 15 countries participated covertly.[116] According to classified U.S. documents released by Wikileaks, despite the Canadian government's official position that they would not participate in the invasion, Canadian officials allegedly promised to clandestinely support it.[117] In addition to naval vessels and personnel already in the region,[117] Canadian officers served in senior command positions[118] and Canadian pilots flew Boeing C-17s into Iraq to "season" the flight crews.[119] In 2003, Prime Minister Chrétien admitted that some Canadian troops could be serving alongside American and British troops in Iraq. "It's possible," he said, "but they are not in combat roles." Canadian Defense Minister John McCallum refused to give Parliament details about the locations of Canadian soldiers in Iraq."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-...%E2%80%93_Iraq
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