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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

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Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

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  #61  
Old 26 May 17, 23:13
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Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
I finished reading "Passage of Power" (Caro) and it is noted that LBJ was excited and eager to find out if Bob Kennedy (in critical condition) was dead, and made many attempts.

Then he tried to keep his corpse from being buried at Arlington
That's very interesting. I've never heard that but don't doubt it one bit.
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  #62  
Old 27 May 17, 02:35
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This subject has always led to polarisation and as we have seen in this thread the questioning of people's mental health. There is a gigantic thread on the subject with some good, some bad in it. I have read a great deal on the subject , some good some bad but my main conclusion is that LHOs background and associates highly indicate that he did not act alone and those associates strongly link to parts of the Central Intelligence Agency. The only Congressional investigation into the matters investigators thought so too. Kennedy was utterly loathed by them and was considered by some to be a traitor mainly over Cuba and his back channels to Castro and Kruschev. The utter hatred that was had for him cannot be underestimated . Nor for his brother. As soon as he ran for the presidency , he was a dead man. Kennedy was shot virtually point blank from behind. As for JFK . If anyone reads the work of Gaeton Fonzi and still think it's all BS then good luck to you and Godspeed. As for Vietnam, it's very difficult to know however JFKs policy on Laos is potentially indicative .

Last edited by copenhagen; 27 May 17 at 02:40..
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  #63  
Old 27 May 17, 11:18
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Thumbs up NAILED IT !!!

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Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
This subject has always led to polarisation and as we have seen in this thread the questioning of people's mental health. There is a gigantic thread on the subject with some good, some bad in it. I have read a great deal on the subject , some good some bad but my main conclusion is that LHOs background and associates highly indicate that he did not act alone and those associates strongly link to parts of the Central Intelligence Agency. The only Congressional investigation into the matters investigators thought so too. Kennedy was utterly loathed by them and was considered by some to be a traitor mainly over Cuba and his back channels to Castro and Kruschev. The utter hatred that was had for him cannot be underestimated . Nor for his brother. As soon as he ran for the presidency , he was a dead man. Kennedy was shot virtually point blank from behind. As for JFK . If anyone reads the work of Gaeton Fonzi and still think it's all BS then good luck to you and Godspeed. As for Vietnam, it's very difficult to know however JFKs policy on Laos is potentially indicative .
Outstanding comment and point of view indeed.
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  #64  
Old 27 May 17, 20:11
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Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
What do you guys think about the possibility of LBJ being involved in the assassination of his archerival, Bob Kennedy and the timely death of JFK?
No motive for LBJ on RFK.

March 31 1968 LBJ announces he will not run for reelection.


Two months latter RFK is killed. By the time of RFK is murdered LBJ is headed for the door.
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  #65  
Old 27 May 17, 20:34
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Cult Icon

Excellent postings! I assume the book you are reading is Caro's third vol. in his LBJ biography series or is it a stand alone?

LBJ was an intense hater of the Kennedy family. He called them the "Irish Mafia" as they had some serious connections, by way of their father. That branch was dying out with the father wanting his boys to be freed from such influence, and to achieve fame without it. LBJ remained a tool of it.

The level of hate greatly increased upon LBJ become President, after the Coup of 1963, in that the "lone gunman theory" of the Warren Commission was suppose to be unimpeachable. And the Kennedy family was suppose never again to run for President. After a short period, media and private investigators began to tear down the "lone gunman theory" (see Copenhagen's thread on JFK assassination), which caused LBJ to be convinced that RFK was the chief cause of the attacking of the said theory. The breaking point was when RFK dangerously declared that, in fact he would be running for President. Upon the Tet Offensive 68 and the downturn in Vietnam, LBJ had a severe depression and resigned. I suppose he could not bare being a part of another Kennedy killing to stay in power. LBJ would be dead in barely over four years.

However, Richard Nixon was gleefully, full of pride and arrogance, on full power to advance to the Oval Office; a true to form Kennedy hater. JFK had took Nixon's election from Nixon, in 1960. RFK was to be quickly deposed of. Nixon had been groomed and waiting to take the Throne since 1960. Nixon and LBJ was not open enemies to one another but personal competitors for the love and affection of the powers of the Deep State. LBJ even gave Nixon some effective advice on getting Nixon elected, in 1968, which LBJ would live regret.
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  #66  
Old 03 Jun 17, 15:39
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Question Accurate or Inaccurate ???

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Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
Except we weren't waging a war upon the Vietnamese Revolution. We were waging a war against the North Vietnamese state to end their waging a war against the RVN. Their survival was not at risk.
Check this out Shaun and tell me what you think please:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ0zLoy9FKM&t=3s
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  #67  
Old 28 Jul 17, 13:35
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His role in cuban missile crisis was a positive one

Totally disagreed with his domestic politics

No individual is a saint
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  #68  
Old 28 Jul 17, 23:53
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GRA, In regards to the "planning" for operations in Indochina and Korea, Prouty is repeating hearsay information he heard from an unnamed source supply person in Okinawa. (I.e., "Old Sarge") If weapons were to be provided to Hanoi, an American ship would have had to deliver them to Haiphong. He mentions tanks and 105mm Artillery. If you check the Pentagon Papers, you'll find telegrams from HCM to Truman, asking that the US intervene in Indochina in March 1946 to prevent the French CEFEO from landing at Haiphong. There are no stamps or any other evidence that these telegrams were even staffed. The were apparently filed and never answered. More than that, there is no evidence of any Military Assistance Agreement between either the US and DRVN or the French and Indochinese states until 1950, which is what provided arms to what became the ARVN in 1955.

The Viet Minh never had tanks and it was sometime in the 50s before they acquired 105mm cannons. Nor have I ever seen any evidence that US ships were delivering anything to Indochina prior to January 1951, when aircraft for the French and Associated State Armies arrived. Yes, ships would have been provided to move the Japanese POWs home, but since the war had ended, the US no longer controlled the Allied Shipping Pool. So the incoming French were arriving in Indochina in British, French, and Dutch shipping, but not American. Indeed, the scheduled transport of the French Far-East Brigade from Madagascar to Indochina in US ships in early 1946 was cancelled, with the US agreeing only to ship the Senegalese rank and file back to Africa for demobilization. (As recounted in Henry-Jean Loustau's book: Les Deux Bataillons).

Regarding Korea, we had an Army Corps (XXIV) deploy into Korea to take the Japanese surrender and establish an occupation government, which had at least the 7th Infantry Division under it. The last US Combat unit to pull out of Korea was a Regimental Combat Team of the 7th Division, which redeployed to Japan in June 1949.

PS: We also had an entire Marine Amphibious Corps deployed to North China in the same period, and that came out of Okinawa.

So, regarding Kora: There was no one to build an Army around until 1948, when the ROK was established. What the occupation and interim Korean government had was a constabulary which was not armed with heavy weapons. Indeed, as late as June 1950, ROK Infantry Divisions had not received their organic artillery (per GEN Paik Sun-yup's book "From Pusan to Panmunjon"). While in Korea, I read an account of the ROK Regimental commander on Cheju-do island just prior to the unrest, and his Regiment had only a single battalion, and they were armed with Japanese Arisaka's and Nambu's, having obtained ammunition only by asking the islands famous female divers to bring up what the Japanese had tossed into the sea.

In short: Interesting, but where's the beef?
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  #69  
Old 29 Jul 17, 00:57
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In his book, General Paik said that ROK Divisions normally had only one Artillery Battalion and that often had 75mm Pack howitzers. Later on Paik's Division had American Artillery Battalions attached to it until he had close to an American Division's firepower. The Anitank weapons were often 57mm Recoilless Rifles, whose shells bounced off Nork T-34's.

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  #70  
Old 29 Jul 17, 22:20
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Pruitt, I don't hae the book now, but my memory is that Paik mentions that when he took command of the 1st ROK Division on the eve of the war, it had not received its Artillery yet. So, it that correct? Suggesting that they got their artillery later, or a false memory of mine? (always possible, but I'm usually better as stuff I read long ago than where I just put my glasses)
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