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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

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Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

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  #31  
Old 06 May 17, 15:05
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Cool

As I've previously stated in this thread and another in this Forum, this October will bring an enormous document dump regarding the JFK operation. IMHO, we will NOT get all the incriminating documents that may have once existed that will definitively provide absolute proof sufficient to close this case, and therefore I am not personally anticipative of such.

However ...

This stands to be extremely interesting as I think there may possibly be information that may prove and/or disprove a lot of other things that occurred in the 60(s) and 70(s) which may not only be linked to JFK/RFK/MLK cases but definitely the Vietnam War.

One for example, is the fact that a lot of folks don't believe JFK actually ordered the hit of Diem in Vietnam (if I spelled that right), yet he was taken out by the spooks whom only informed him of this afterwards.

Another is that we may learn that it was not only precious metals that attracted Dulles, Et Al, to SE Asia but even more so the lucrative opium trade in that area, which was indeed "gold and silver" in and of itself.

This is what I mostly anticipate now. I've had my mind made up about JFK a long time ago. RFK and MLK are different stories and operations.
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  #32  
Old 06 May 17, 16:14
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Why you ask would those power elites (who would be the Deep State as defined by Peter Dale Scott) want to enter and make war upon the Vietnamese Revolution?
Except we weren't waging a war upon the Vietnamese Revolution. We were waging a war against the North Vietnamese state to end their waging a war against the RVN. Their survival was not at risk.
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  #33  
Old 06 May 17, 16:18
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GRA

Thank You for your kind words!

I am looking forward to the Federal dump of carefully controlled and worked over documents as the experts/researchers should find things of interest to be mined from them.

On the matter of the Diem and his brother assassinations, my limited research and humble opinion is that JFK did not outright order the killings. They were both Catholic believers with Diem on a fanatical level. JFK had not the nerve to order their deaths directly. If you remember they had been seized, and the Diem brothers believed they were on their way to the Airport and a forced exile (maybe in a nice Catholic country like France or Italy), as they were lead to believe under gunpoint. However, those powers loyal not to JFK but to the Deep State had them shot dead to silence them from the World. The Truth that the Diem were tools of the CIA and had gotten too independent plus secret talks planned with Communists the World should never know the war could have ended in 1963. Nothing can get you a CIA death warrant quicker than becoming disloyal and breaking their contract. When JFK was told the bloody results he was suppose to have ordered all out of the room, with tears in his eyes, so as to weep alone on the cold bloodied murder of fellow Catholics and maybe even anger at the betrayal of those notable officials in the US Embassy and Military who took advantage of the situation and against his hope to spare the Diems.

On the matter of narcotic empire I find this very disturbing and I agreed it maybe also be a major factor in addition to the other cited factors. Plenty enough already to get the Kennedy brothers and Diem brothers killed. I had a copy and somewhat read book: THE CIA'S BACK SECRET WAR IN LAOS AND ITS LINK'S TO THE WAR IN VIETNAM by ROGER WARNER. It is interesting and somewhat informative but something about it I find unfulfilling despite it's awesome title. I can not quite understand this feeling from it but I plan to study on it more. The greater story maybe the huge Nationalist Chinese Army under control and support of the CIA that moved out of China by Mao's war upon them and forced to flee into Burma. Whereupon it established a huge heroin production empire and commenced a extremely profitable heroin international world (it was refined in Southern France with control of mafia and OAS) trade proving a money making golden goose for both the Chinese fascist criminals and the CIA. This heroin was flooding across Laos and Vietnam to international markets and filled European Banks to be money washed into clean currency for CIA programs and enjoyment. Thus the great CIA interest in the Laos mountain tribes of the area and the Vietnamese and Laos power elites before the Communist conquered them.
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  #34  
Old 06 May 17, 17:10
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Hello Uncle Lirelou!

I disagree there was indeed a war upon the Vietnamese Revolution (people). I recall one to two million deaths and then they were abandoned as soon as the Indonesian copper and gold mines become operational in 1973. There existed a chance to end the killing in 1968, but Nixon and Kissinger would not allow it, as the Sukarno was overthrown and installed CIA supported Suharko cleared the way to a very favorable contract on that gold and copper deposits in 1967. Can you see how the timeline and players fit perfectly?

I recalled around 1953 the CIA produced the GEORGE WASHINGTON OF VIETNAM DIEM as president of the artificially created RVN also called South Vietnam. Only now the US government change from saying the Vietnamese are fighting each other in a Vietnamese Civil War and now falsely claim, as you say, the North Vietnamese are invading and "waging war against" the lawful and sovereign foreign state of South Vietnam. Having the US government wrongfully claim they are only innocently and morally protecting Vietnamese democracy in the South Vietnam, while in fact the power of the US government was already there overthrowing the Geneva Convention Settlement of the Indochinese War and establishing a falsehood leading to an ocean of blood and death.
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  #35  
Old 06 May 17, 17:49
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Originally Posted by Bo Archer View Post
I understand the "lone gunman" crazy man theory very well as it was the basis of the original Deep State propaganda that dominated the infamous Dulles Commission (oh! am sorry I should say the Warren Commission) that was imposed on the American people. That you are still a confirmed loyalist is truly a surprise as not many would be proud to claim it.

Your feeble effort to impact shock at the amount of money the JFK researchers (and others assassinate people that are being researched) would normally make, as any author would, in publishing books and other articles of media promoting and seeking justice related to JFK killing, I find very unimpressive. I asked others to take into consideration the mountains of money forward by the powerful forces of the Deep State to their huge corrupt apparatus to keep their ducks in a loyal row of conformity. Think of the amounts just to keep the Mafia Army quiet and the Cuban Exile Community quiet. The amounts paid to hundreds and hundreds of common informants, news media outlets, apologist authors, bribing witnesses, silencing widow women and their children, keeping those retirees of the CIA and FBI plus many other numerous securities agencies loyal with fat checks. That amount in totality has to be very very huge.

You would have us all close our eyes and shut our mouths to keep conforming and be docile.
Actually I would recommend prescription medication and some professional therapy.
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  #36  
Old 06 May 17, 18:03
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Originally Posted by Bo Archer View Post
Why you ask would those power elites (who would be the Deep State as defined by Peter Dale Scott) want to enter and make war upon the Vietnamese Revolution?
Firstly, we were already at war with the "Vietnamese Revolution" when JFK came into office. Secondly, the number of American advisors in Viet Nam increased 16 fold under JFK*, with plans to increase the number of troops there even further after the 64 election. That according to McNamara in the documentary "Fog of War." Hardly sounds like JFK was having to be pushed and prodded into getting the US further involved in the war in South East Asia. Thirdly...if there was a conspiracy by some "Deep State" that killed JFK...how come not single member of his administration, or at least the higher ups, never made that claim themselves? Wouldn't logic dictate that, at the very least, his brother, the topic of this thread, would've said something like "Hey, those bastards killed my brother!" Oh wait, I guess Bobby was in on the big cover up as well...along with McNamara, Rusk, Sorensen, Bundy, Salinger, Et al.

*November 1963 — By this time, Kennedy had increased the number of military personnel from the 900 that were there when he became President to 16,000 just before his death.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/pe...VietnamWar.htm
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  #37  
Old 06 May 17, 18:04
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Originally Posted by GRA View Post
As I've previously stated in this thread and another in this Forum, this October will bring an enormous document dump regarding the JFK operation. IMHO, we will NOT get all the incriminating documents that may have once existed that will definitively provide absolute proof sufficient to close this case, and therefore I am not personally anticipative of such.
You think your conspiracy forgot to tidy up their paperwork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRA View Post
One for example, is the fact that a lot of folks don't believe JFK actually ordered the hit of Diem in Vietnam (if I spelled that right), yet he was taken out by the spooks whom only informed him of this afterwards.
The spooks had to take him out a year short of a tough re-election when JFK's many failings would have cost him the election if exposed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GRA View Post
Another is that we may learn that it was not only precious metals that attracted Dulles, Et Al, to SE Asia but even more so the lucrative opium trade in that area, which was indeed "gold and silver" in and of itself.
You mean the same source of opium that had been serving the USA since Lucky Luciano got things going in the '30s?

Here's a fact that will put that all into reference: the war in Vietnam did not bring on the opium epidemic in any fashion. A medical team in New Zealand did that by perfecting the disposable plastic hypodermic.

You see, up to that point is was very hard for addicts to get and maintain a hypo, and the heroin trade was thusly capped.

But as disposable plastic hypos went into mass production in the USA in the mid-60s the solution to the 'user bottleneck' was seen. Then came the flood of cheap heroin.

The war in SE Asia pushed the Golden Triage supply down on the food chain through the social and commercial disruption. That ensured the rise of other suppliers. Today 70-80% of US heroin consumption comes from other sources.
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Last edited by Arnold J Rimmer; 06 May 17 at 18:09..
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  #38  
Old 06 May 17, 18:08
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Originally Posted by phil74501 View Post
Firstly, we were already at war with the "Vietnamese Revolution" when JFK came into office. Secondly, the number of American advisors in Viet Nam increased 16 fold under JFK*, with plans to increase the number of troops there even further after the 64 election. That according to McNamara in the documentary "Fog of War." Hardly sounds like JFK was having to be pushed and prodded into getting the US further involved in the war in South East Asia. Thirdly...if there was a conspiracy by some "Deep State" that killed JFK...how come not single member of his administration, or at least the higher ups, never made that claim themselves? Wouldn't logic dictate that, at the very least, his brother, the topic of this thread, would've said something like "Hey, those bastards killed my brother!" Oh wait, I guess Bobby was in on the big cover up as well...along with McNamara, Rusk, Sorensen, Bundy, Salinger, Et al.

*November 1963 — By this time, Kennedy had increased the number of military personnel from the 900 that were there when he became President to 16,000 just before his death.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/pe...VietnamWar.htm
I can't rep you so son.

Lets not forget that JFK is the father of the modern Special Forces, which he intended specifically for Vietnam.

Oliver North needed to plug the gaping plot hole for his movie, and so he pushed the Vietnam nonsense, along with a large number of other fairy takes in his movie.

It made for good fiction, I will admit.
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  #39  
Old 06 May 17, 22:40
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It's interesting how a post that asks opinions of Robert Kennedy, results in no meaningful discussion on Kennedy and instead degenerates into airings of all the old conspiracy theories.
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Old 06 May 17, 22:51
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I have no opinion on Robert Kennedy specifically, just a general low opinion of all things Kennedy.
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  #41  
Old 06 May 17, 23:06
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I have no opinion on Robert Kennedy specifically, just a general low opinion of all things Kennedy.
Robert really hadn't done much except carry out his brother's policies as AG. He certainly didn't reign in J Edgar any.

Like you, I don't have any use for the Kennedys. Thankfully Teddy shot his career in the foot before he became POTUS.
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  #42  
Old 06 May 17, 23:07
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It's interesting how a post that asks opinions of Robert Kennedy, results in no meaningful discussion on Kennedy and instead degenerates into airings of all the old conspiracy theories.
Take away the conspiracy theories and there isn't much left. Assassination made them special, not their actual accomplishments.
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Old 06 May 17, 23:25
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Take away the conspiracy theories and there isn't much left. Assassination made them special, not their actual accomplishments.
Well, giving credit where credit is due, they did accomplish Marilyn Monroe.
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Old 07 May 17, 00:29
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Wouldn't logic dictate that, at the very least, his brother, the topic of this thread, would've said something like "Hey, those bastards killed my brother!"
From what the records show from close-by witnesses, he basically did.
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  #45  
Old 07 May 17, 05:19
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From what the records show from close-by witnesses, he basically did.
By 'basically he did', what do you mean?

Which records? Did he go on record in the press, DoJ minutes, or the Congressional record?

All of which are public documents now.
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