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  #16  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:13
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Not with NASA in the picture and an incredible national debt.
Thanks to the Dems and Mr Obama the future of manned space flight, and other space flight, is in the private sector. One of the best decisions they made.
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  #17  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:20
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We are just waiting for technology to develop. I know there's a lot of people in this board who think solar energy is a jewish lie, but for space exploration it seems, at least to me, quite a crucial step. Another is the need to have better systems of storing energy, and so forth.

Once that frontier opens we can expect to take a few more steps as humandkind. Until then i expect us to fight like idiots for the finite resources here, as we always do.
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  #18  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:30
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Space and everything related to space travel already is cool.

The problem is that the only way to make space travel profitable and truly privatize it, is to make it boring to most people. I could shoot seismic data, drill wells, correlate logs and map the geology of Mars, Venus, Titan, Enceladus or just about any other rocky or ice planet or moon for the rest of my life. I could only do that, if there was a business reason. Most people find business to be boring... particularly businesses governed by safety Nazis. The extreme safety measures we already take in places like the Gulf of Mexico would have to be kicked up a couple of orders of magnitude becuase, as dangerous as offshore drilling is, drilling on another planet, moon or asteroid would be far more dangerous. And despite the best efforts of the safety Nazis, accidents would still happen and the fatality rate of accidents in space would usually be close to 100%.
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  #19  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
We are just waiting for technology to develop. I know there's a lot of people in this board who think solar energy is a jewish lie, but for space exploration it seems, at least to me, quite a crucial step. Another is the need to have better systems of storing energy, and so forth.

Once that frontier opens we can expect to take a few more steps as humandkind. Until then i expect us to fight like idiots for the finite resources here, as we always do.
Solar power, apart from the solar wind, isn't very useful in the outer solar system. This is whay most deep space probes are nuclear powered.
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  #20  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:36
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Originally Posted by Chukka View Post
On the topic of Space Tourism, I am VERY, VERY VERY dubious about the characters at Worldview, who are developing (edge of) Space tourist Balloon flights. The do however have a few runs on the board, and have made a few scale Model test flights. The View would be amazing and unlike Virgin Galactic or Lynx there would be plenty of time to enjoy it. I'd go if I had the cash.

If (Huge if) they get up and running their effect on the space tourism market will be interesting.

They are producing a nice but dead end technology. At $75K per seat it will soak up a lot of the money that might have otherwise have gone into sustaining Rocket powered space tourist providers that will go father and higher, and actually take us somewhere.

If hundreds of folks are going on these space balloons, will that be good or bad for the rocket based providers?

[IMG]http.../worldview_headquarters02.jpg[/IMG]
Space tourism won't be feasible until long after economic exploitation of space becomes profitable.
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  #21  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
Space and everything related to space travel already is cool.

The problem is that the only way to make space travel profitable and truly privatize it, is to make it boring to most people. I could shoot seismic data, drill wells, correlate logs and map the geology of Mars, Venus, Titan, Enceladus or just about any other rocky or ice planet or moon for the rest of my life. I could only do that, if there was a business reason. Most people find business to be boring... particularly businesses governed by safety Nazis. The extreme safety measures we already take in places like the Gulf of Mexico would have to be kicked up a couple of orders of magnitude becuase, as dangerous as offshore drilling is, drilling on another planet, moon or asteroid would be far more dangerous. And despite the best efforts of the safety Nazis, accidents would still happen and the fatality rate of accidents in space would usually be close to 100%.
The safety Nazis in commercial space flight exist for a market based reason. You want that $75,000,000 dollar communications satellite to make it into orbit 99% of the time or even better....
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  #22  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
The safety Nazis in commercial space flight exist for a market based reason. You want that $75,000,000 dollar communications satellite to make it into orbit 99% of the time or even better....
And that's just for expensive payloads. You can't do manned spaceflight without extreme safety Nazism. And even then, normalization of deviance, as missions become routine, will still lead to accidents
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  #23  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
Solar power, apart from the solar wind, isn't very useful in the outer solar system. This is whay most deep space probes are nuclear powered.
But it is useful in the inner solar system(we wont be traveling anywhere far for quite some time), and that is what the next step will be. The sun is the biggest source of energy next to us, utilizing it fully is the next logical step. In space it's also available all the time.
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  #24  
Old 08 Mar 17, 07:54
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Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
And that's just for expensive payloads. You can't do manned spaceflight without extreme safety Nazism. And even then, normalization of deviance, as missions become routine, will still lead to accidents
The way we build private space flight, in the beginning has nothing to do with manned flight, it has everything to do with commercial hauling to earth orbit.
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  #25  
Old 08 Mar 17, 08:52
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Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
The way we build private space flight, in the beginning has nothing to do with manned flight, it has everything to do with commercial hauling to earth orbit.
You can't do the latter without the former. However, Space X is nowhere close to the heavy lifting capacity that will be required for the economic exploitation of the Moon, Mars and other planets, moons and asteroids.

The expensive part is getting things off the Earth and into orbit.

Ares V (AKA Constellation) was cancelled in 2009...



The Space X Falcon 9 rocket can only carry a 22,800 kg payload to low Earth orbit. It's "cool" so long as spaceflight only consists of lifting light payloads to low orbit, much lighter payloads to geostationary orbits or delivering cargo to the ISS.

It will require heavy lift vehicles, like the Ares V, or a space elevator to begin the process of economically exploiting our Solar System.

Since the private sector has now demonstrated the capability to deliver small payloads into orbit, NASA should focus on establishing permanent infrastructure in Earth orbit, on the Moon and manned travel to Mars and beyond. If we are going to have a National Astronautics and Space Administration, it should be spending its entire budget on astronautics (space operations). NASA lacks the means to conduct its primary mission because it spends an ever increasing share of its budget on Earth, environmental, marine and other ancillary science projects.

The science should be left to academia, NOAA, USGS, other government science agencies and the private sector.

Over recent years, NASA has spent about 30% of its budget on things not related to astronautics.

Apollo 17 astronaut Jack Schmitt has some good ideas about restructuring NASA... Scrap it and replace it with an agency dedicated to space operations.

NASA should only be doing those things that the private sector, other government agencies and academia can't do.
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  #26  
Old 08 Mar 17, 08:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Thanks to the Dems and Mr Obama the future of manned space flight, and other space flight, is in the private sector. One of the best decisions they made.
That process was started in 2006.

"Thanks to the Dems and Mr Obama" the Ares V was cancelled so NASA could spend more money on environmental and climate "science" and conduct Muslim outreach...
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Old 08 Mar 17, 08:58
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Originally Posted by Karri View Post
But it is useful in the inner solar system(we wont be traveling anywhere far for quite some time), and that is what the next step will be. The sun is the biggest source of energy next to us, utilizing it fully is the next logical step. In space it's also available all the time.
In space, it is available all the time. And it's fine for satellites and other activities which don't require a lot of power... Which doesn't do much for the economic exploitation of the solar system.
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  #28  
Old 08 Mar 17, 09:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
That process was started in 2006.

"Thanks to the Dems and Mr Obama" the Ares V was cancelled so NASA could spend more money on environmental and climate "science" and conduct Muslim outreach...
Yes, in 2006 the Dems controlled the money. Easy peasy. I clearly remember the bitch-fest threads on the boards about Obama killing government space exploration.. made me laugh at those that say the government needs to let private companies lead.

Now we see a flip.. flop.
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Old 08 Mar 17, 10:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Engineer View Post
Yes, in 2006 the Dems controlled the money. Easy peasy. I clearly remember the bitch-fest threads on the boards about Obama killing government space exploration.. made me laugh at those that say the government needs to let private companies lead.

Now we see a flip.. flop.
The Republicans still controlled Congress in 2006.

Regarding the flip-flop bullschist....

18 May 2012
Quote:
I don't have a problem with gov't supporting R&D with tax breaks or even technical assistance... But, I don't think "seed money" or loans & loan guarantees are appropriate.

If the private sector can deliver a safe and economic means of moving payloads and people to and from Earth orbit... NASA should focus on establishing permanent infrastructure in Earth orbit, on the Moon and manned travel to Mars and beyond. If we are going to have a National Aeronautics and Space Adminitration, it should be spending its entire budget on space operations. NASA lacks the means to conduct its primary mission because it spends an ever increasing share of its budget on Earth, environmental, marine and other ancillary science projects.

The science should be left to academia, NOAA, USGS, other government science agencies and the private sector.

NASA's current projected budget will have the agency spending ~40% of its funds on science projects (much of which is greentarded) and a steadily diminishing % on space operations (NASA's real mission).

Apollo 17 astronaut Jack Schnitt has some good ideas about restructuring NASA... Scrap it and replace it with an agency dedicated to space operations...

http://americasuncommonsense.com/blo...osal-for-nasa/
28 January 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
The STS program is more than 30 years old. Columbia had been in the fleet for more than 20 years when she was lost. No one ever intended to fly spacecraft for 20 years or more. STS was supposed to be a transitional vehicle... Not a perpetual program.

Bush was dedicated to the return to the Moon, manned missions to Mars and the STS replacement (Ares 1 rocket and Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle). Obama was been itching to scrap Ares & Orion even before he was inaugurated... Obama May Cancel Space Shuttle Replacement

NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration... Not Need Another Socialist Agenda.
3 August 2009
Quote:
An "Authoritarian Libertarian"... Telling people with great authority to do what they would have done anyway if no one told them what to do... What a great philosophy!

If I had a 2/3 majority of Congress with me...

I'd cut all non-defense discretionary spending except NASA by 50% and I'd repeal the 16th Amendment – the one that empowered the gov't to collect income taxes. Then I'd convert Social Security into a privatized defined contribution plan that allowed individuals to put 25% of their balance into stock mutual funds; but require that 75% be in US Treasury bonds.

I'd triple NASA's budget... But I would eliminate all of NASA's environmental science programs. NASA would be focused on two things: 1) Space exploitation and 2) Economically useful Earth satellites (i.e. weather, communications, GPS, etc.).

I would eliminate the Departments of Energy, Education, Labor, Health and Human Services, and Housing and Urban Development. I would keep the EPA; but I would make it a subsidiary of the Commerce Department – No environmental policies or regulations could be promulgated without a thorough economic analysis.

I'd make Beer Summits the norm. Every Thursday I would invite a couple of political opponents and a couple of private citizens over to the White House to discuss some issue over a few dozen beers.
My position on NASA hasn't changed much since 1963.
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  #30  
Old 08 Mar 17, 10:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karri View Post
We are just waiting for technology to develop. I know there's a lot of people in this board who think solar energy is a jewish lie, but for space exploration it seems, at least to me, quite a crucial step. Another is the need to have better systems of storing energy, and so forth.

Once that frontier opens we can expect to take a few more steps as humandkind. Until then i expect us to fight like idiots for the finite resources here, as we always do.
'we'?

Unless you have broad-based popular support sufficient to bear the tax burden of trillion-dollar programs, there is no 'we'.

That support is what will cause the technology to develop.

So you have the cart before the horse: first you get public support, then you get the tech.

You are still on square one.
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