HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > World War II > Armor in World War II

Notices and Announcements

Armor in World War II Discuss all aspects & disciplines of World War II Armor here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19 Feb 17, 22:37
Cult Icon's Avatar
Cult Icon Cult Icon is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NE US
Posts: 7,307
Cult Icon is simply cracking [600]
Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600]
Clearing minefields with tanks

From British observations:

Quote:
2. BREAKING TRAILS THROUGH MINEFIELDS
The Germans have two methods for going through minefields:
(a) They lay a smoke screen and send in engineers to plot a trail through the
minefield, locate mines in the passageway with mine detectors, and detonate
the charges.
(b) Or, behind an artillery barrage, they send a tank over the trail selected. The
tank goes ahead until its tracks are blown off by exploding mines. A second
tank then tows the first one out, and resumes the forward drive until its own
tracks, in turn, are damaged. A third then comes to tow the second, and the
process is repeated until a trail through the minefield has been established. The
Germans usually get through at a cost of three or four tanks. Since the only
damage these suffer is the loss of their tracks—which the German recovery
system can repair in three or four hours—the Germans do not regard minefields
as serious obstacles in the desert. It should be noted that the Germans use
anything and everything to pull tanks off the field. The recovery and
maintenance system operating in Libya has been so well developed that it can
repair 10 tanks a day.
Mines have been the bane of the panzers (particularly on the eastern front). I had never read of the Germans removing mines with such a method. The mines could be anti-tank!
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 19 Feb 17, 23:26
CarpeDiem's Avatar
CarpeDiem CarpeDiem is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Canada
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,879
CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900]
CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900]
Can you please provide the source for this information? It would help the discussion to know the time, place or general origin of this observation. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20 Feb 17, 00:32
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,797
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
I read somewhere that Pieper did something like that during the Bulge, but the way it was written, that was extremely unusual.

I find it hard to accept that the Germans, who had equipment and repair issues throughout the war, would take that tactic.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20 Feb 17, 01:24
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is online now
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,445
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Peiper could have been detonating mines that were just laid on the surface. The ground was froze in late December in the Ardennes. The American Engineers and Mine Platoons did not have time to bury them.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21 Feb 17, 23:37
Cult Icon's Avatar
Cult Icon Cult Icon is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NE US
Posts: 7,307
Cult Icon is simply cracking [600]
Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600] Cult Icon is simply cracking [600]
The books is called "Afrika corps in combat" edited by Bob Carruthers. It is a sourced from allied documents and spliced together into an organized books on observations.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23 Feb 17, 15:15
CarpeDiem's Avatar
CarpeDiem CarpeDiem is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
Canada
Distinguished Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,879
CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900]
CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900] CarpeDiem has earned the respect of all [900]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
The books is called "Afrika corps in combat" edited by Bob Carruthers. It is a sourced from allied documents and spliced together into an organized books on observations.
Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23 Feb 17, 16:31
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,581
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
One has to look at experience. In WW1 the majority of Allied tank casualties in 1918 were from AT mines and the memory remained (I remember my father's boss , a jovial man with a cork foot because he had driven his Mk V over a German AT mine.) Many of the senior tank officers in Britain and the US in 1939 had been junior tank officers in 1918. The development of armoured mine disposal like the flail tank can be traced to experiments with Mk V** tanks in 1918/19. Germany had no such experience and in 1939/40 do not appear to have experienced many problems in Poland or France which would not encourage giving the issue too much attention. Anti personnel mines were used only in very minute amounts in WW1 (and then mainly as anti lifting devices for AT fields) and were not really an issue until post 1939 so again not oo much attention may have been paid to the problem
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23 Feb 17, 17:32
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 69,382
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
Unless those tanks are covered by constant smoke, a smart gun crew is going to wait and take out the second tank when it shows up to tow the first.

Doesn't sound like the best method but rather one born of desperation.

When one is advancing in that fashion, i question where all of the extra track is going to come from.
__________________
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23 Feb 17, 17:52
the ace's Avatar
the ace the ace is online now
General of the Forums
Scotland
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Andrew
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 5,589
the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700]
the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700] the ace is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Unless those tanks are covered by constant smoke, a smart gun crew is going to wait and take out the second tank when it shows up to tow the first.

Doesn't sound like the best method but rather one born of desperation.

When one is advancing in that fashion, i question where all of the extra track is going to come from.
Pretty much my sentiments too. It looks like a criminal waste of armour.

On another note, I've heard that Soviet sappers used to nick German mines, and re-position them (German mines were easier to handle, and better-made than their Soviet equivalents). Can anyone confirm/refute this ?
__________________
Indyref2 - still, "Yes."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23 Feb 17, 18:35
DogDodger's Avatar
DogDodger DogDodger is offline
Colonel
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Chris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WV
Posts: 1,612
DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200] DogDodger is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
In WW1 the majority of Allied tank casualties in 1918 were from AT mines
That's an interesting assertion. Where can we read about the listing of tank casualties in WW1 to different causes? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 23 Feb 17, 18:52
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,797
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by the ace View Post
Pretty much my sentiments too. It looks like a criminal waste of armour.

On another note, I've heard that Soviet sappers used to nick German mines, and re-position them (German mines were easier to handle, and better-made than their Soviet equivalents). Can anyone confirm/refute this ?
The Teller mines had anti-handling fuses, and after '42 two different anti-handling devices as well. Unless they were capturing the mines from depots, I don't think they stole all that many.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 23 Feb 17, 19:20
FireGodHamster's Avatar
FireGodHamster FireGodHamster is offline
Lance Corporal
Sweden
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: -
Posts: 41
FireGodHamster is on the path to success [1-99]
If someone wouldn't mind answering these;
So why didn't the Germans use anti-mine devices for tanks?

Reading about the repairing of tanks reminded me of a claim that the Germans were better at repairing tanks having skilled mechanics, able to make far more damaged tanks functional again than the norm. Since you always read about spare parts and logistics as a cronic issue it's intresting if true though perhaps doesn't matter if the tanks was sent back to Germany.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 23 Feb 17, 20:33
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is online now
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,445
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Germans were only sending tanks back to a depot when they were advancing (except North Africa!). The ones sent back to Germany were in bad shape and there was no guarantee they would get them back. In Germany they would also be modified with upgrades. After a while the Mark III's just might be converted into STUG's. The Panzer 38's and Mark II's might well be converted into Marders.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26 Feb 17, 10:12
MikeMeech's Avatar
MikeMeech MikeMeech is offline
Gunnery Sergeant
UK
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Clacton-on-Sea
Posts: 181
MikeMeech is on the path to success [1-99] MikeMeech is on the path to success [1-99] MikeMeech is on the path to success [1-99] MikeMeech is on the path to success [1-99] MikeMeech is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogDodger View Post
That's an interesting assertion. Where can we read about the listing of tank casualties in WW1 to different causes? Thanks.
Hi

As far as the British are concerned I have not seen any evidence that the majority of their tank casualties in 1918 were caused by German anti-tank mines. Indeed the big concern of the Tank Corps during 1918 was German field guns being used in the anti-tank role. The documents of the period appear to indicate this, for example the 'Co-operation between Tanks & Aeroplanes' written by Major Leigh-Mallory in September 1918 states: "Our own experience and captured documents show that the enemy relies almost entirely on his artillery for anti-tank defence,..."
Fuller in 'Tanks in the Great War 1914-1918' mentions German anti-tank mines but does not appear to consider them as a 'great' threat. The book 'Genesis, Employment, Aftermath' edited by Searle, has a chapter 'Scouting for Brigades: British Tank Corps Reconnaissance and Intelligence 1916-18' by Jim Beach has some information and references of documents relating to German anti-tank mines (p.131), however, again from this chapter the artillery used in the anti-tank role has more importance.

I think, from memory, the largest loss of British tanks to anti-tank mines was due to them entering an 'old' British mine field rather than German.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26 Feb 17, 10:16
MarkV's Avatar
MarkV MarkV is offline
General of the Forums
UK
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Tenbury Wells
Posts: 12,581
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700] MarkV is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMeech View Post
Hi

As far as the British are concerned I have not seen any evidence that the majority of their tank casualties in 1918 were caused by German anti-tank mines. Indeed the big concern of the Tank Corps during 1918 was German field guns being used in the anti-tank role. The documents of the period appear to indicate this, for example the 'Co-operation between Tanks & Aeroplanes' written by Major Leigh-Mallory in September 1918 states: "Our own experience and captured documents show that the enemy relies almost entirely on his artillery for anti-tank defence,..."
Fuller in 'Tanks in the Great War 1914-1918' mentions German anti-tank mines but does not appear to consider them as a 'great' threat. The book 'Genesis, Employment, Aftermath' edited by Searle, has a chapter 'Scouting for Brigades: British Tank Corps Reconnaissance and Intelligence 1916-18' by Jim Beach has some information and references of documents relating to German anti-tank mines (p.131), however, again from this chapter the artillery used in the anti-tank role has more importance.

I think, from memory, the largest loss of British tanks to anti-tank mines was due to them entering an 'old' British mine field rather than German.

Mike
The US Army Corps of engineers did a report on German AT mines in 1919 it reported that the majority of British losses were through AT mines

From notes taken from the report

The Germans produced approximately 3,852,000 land mines, with an average monthly production rate of 108,000 in 1917 and 128,000 in 1918. Almost all of these were AT mines with some AP mines used t
to discourage mine clearing.

US reports on the effectiveness of German AT mines based on the Mk V* and the Renault FT a few of the results
  • One 3-inch high-explosive shell buried 6 inches under track V* No effect FT Permanently disabled
  • One 6-inch high-explosive shell buried 6 inches under track V* Permanently disabled, FT not tested
  • One 3-inch high-explosive shell on ground under belly V* not tested FT Permanently disabled
  • One 6-inch high-explosive shell on ground under belly V* Permanently disabled FT Completely destroyed
  • 2 pounds triton buried 6 inches under track V* No test FT Heavy damage
  • 15 pounds of triton buried 6 inches under track V* Permanently disabled FT No test

During the period 8 August 1918 to 11 November 1918, the British tunnelling companies supporting the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th armies removed 6,714 German mines (and 4,272 British antitank mines) In addition Canadian and Australian engineers lifted considerable numbers of mines.

Captain Debeque, an American engineer inspected German defensive preparations and found,
Quote:
“While it was well known that the use of tanks by the Allies caused the Germans considerable concern it was not fully realized to what extent they had taken measures to cope with the problem until after the territory had been evacuated and the work of clearing the mine fields was begun. Besides the numerous tank defences and mines encountered a demonstration field was found near Briey [France] which had evidently been used as a school and field for testing various types of tank mines. 5. It appears that the scheme followed by the Germans was to prepare mine fields and auxiliary tank defences along logical avenues of approach for tanks, such as broad fields, valleys, mesas and in the fields adjoining roads. 6. The utilization of tank mines and barriers is typical of a defensive attitude and when these measures were taken by the Germans it is evident that they had little intention of going ahead but were preparing to hold the ground at all cost. 7. While in the majority of the mine fields the mines were connected up and ready for use there were some instances where the mines were placed but had not been equipped with detonating devices. In these cases it is possible that while preparations had been made for a strong defensive organization an opportunity had been left to assume an offensive attitude. 8. In other instances it is noted that the mine fields extending along the front alternate with open fields of similar length having no tank mines or barriers. Whether this arrangement was intended to allow the launching of attacks through the open spaces or whether the plan was to begin the construction of the tank defences at numerous points and eventually fill the intervening spaces is difficult to determine. [another possibility is that these were openings to kill sacks] 9. The Chambley 5-6 map attached hereto shows the organization of the tank mine field extending from Charey…across the open country to Lachausee Lake and it is fairly typical of the methods employed by the Germans in the area confronting the 2nd [US] Army. This field is approximately 4 kilometers in length. The mines consisted principally of Types “B”, “C” and “D” [see table above]. They were placed in one continuous line at intervals from 6 ft. to 10 ft. and at a distance varying from 100 meters to 400 meters in front of the first belt of German wire. The mines were equipped with detonating devices and were ready for firing. 10. An auxiliary tank defense consisting of a barrier of rails was constructed at a distance from 400-500 meters behind the minefield. 11. About one kilometer to the rear of the first mine field work had been started on a similar system of tank mines of the same types with a line of barriers 300 meters to the rear as an auxiliary defense. 12. It appears from this that the German plan was to organize the tank defenses to considerable extent in depth in a manner similar to that employed in siting different trench systems. 13. It is easy to realize the value of such an organization for defensive purposes but it appears that the principal disadvantage of this system is that it deprives the occupants of the ground of the opportunity of resuming the offensive on a scale of any considerable extent as it would be extremely difficult to go forward over tank mines and through barriers with even the light field guns.
14. From the great variety of mines discovered it is evident that the manufacture of tank mines had not become standard but was still in a state of development. It appears that the devising of the machines was, to a considerable extent, left to the ingenuity of the troops occupying the sector. The fact that at least one testing field (Briey) had been established would lead one to believe that it was intended to test the different types and decide upon certain ones as standards for manufacture. 15. While the different types of mines so far discovered are varied in details of construction they are, as a general rule, similar in methods of detonation. 16. The mines generally consist of a wood or metal box containing either a H.E. shell or a quantity of perdite. The mines are arranged to explode under the weight of a tank or even under the weight of a field gun. 17. The detonating device usually consisted of a spring fuse lighter…In some instances mines were equipped with friction fuse lighters. 18. In addition to the mines actuated by the spring and friction fuse lighters a few types were found consisting of H.E. shells placed vertically in boxes and equipped with the regulation instantaneous fuses which would explode under the weight of a tank. A type of mobile charge to be ignited and thrown in front of an approaching tank was also discovered at one place. 20. Of the entire number of mines removed there were discovered many ingenious types. Some of them were extremely dangerous to dismantle due to the fact that they would be exploded [by an improvised antihandling device] when the box was either closed or opened.
The report describes over 20 different types of German AT mines. The principle types were as follows
Type A 40 X 15 X 10 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 6” HE Shell
Type B 40 X 15 X 15 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 6” HE Shell
Type C 18 X 14 X 6 sheet metal box Pressure (“yoke type”) 3 kg of Perdite German Flachmine 17
Type D 27 X 16 X 12 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) Perdite
Type E 144 X 10 X 10 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 6” HE Shell
Type F 66 X 16 X 12 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) two 6” HE Shells A double Type A
Type G 60 X 18 X 15 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 9.7” HE Shell
Type H 36 X 24 X 30 Pressure 12 kg of Perdite or 6” HE Shell Anti-disarming feature
Type I 19 X 13.5 X 16 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 10” HE Shell
Type J HE Shell fitted with plunger igniter Pressure 6” or 8” HE Shell Cover w/ 4” wide board
Type K Wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) two or three 6” HE Shells
Type L 19 X 13 X 7 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 20 kg HE
Type M1 45 X 20 X 20 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 25cm HE Shell
Type M2 40 X 16 X 16 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 15cm HE Shell
Type N 102 X 20 fuze coupled to the main charge Pressure 10 kg HE “pit mine,” two variants found
Type O antipersonnel mine
Type P A pit-type trap, 3ft deep, 8-12ft dia. pressure HE Shell
Type Q 68 X 15 X 10 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 15-21cm HE Shell
Type R 120 X 7.5 X 9.5 wooden box Pressure (Shu mine type) 15-21cm HE Shell

German AT minefields were often booby trapped

I could go on but it is evident that by 1939 the British army probably had more experience of dealing with AT mines in action than any other army
__________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

Last edited by MarkV; 26 Feb 17 at 11:24..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.