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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #61  
Old 30 Apr 17, 16:18
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Another bit of Donbass conflict news about a glorious freedom fighter saving Europe from Putin's murderous Asiatic subhuman Russkie tyranny:


Austrian arrested over Ukraine conflict


Quote:
Austrian prosecutors confirmed Sunday's arrest at Dorohusk, a crossing on Poland's eastern border with Ukraine, but the context of the suspect's alleged crimes remained unclear.

The man is alleged to have killed captured and wounded soldiers near the airport in Donetsk, the scene of clashes between pro-Russian rebels and Ukrainian forces dating back to 2014.

The Polish news agency PAP first reported the arrest. The French news agency AFP initially said the man had fought with rebels, but Reuters later reported the man had fought on the Ukrainian government's side.

He was accused of "having killed soldiers involved in fighting at the Donetsk airport who had already surrendered and/or of having killed civilians," a spokesman for the Prosecutors Office in the province of Lower Austria said.
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  #62  
Old 30 Apr 17, 18:16
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Ukraine opens criminal probe against 94-year-old Jewish WWII hero

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In an unprecedented move, Ukrainian authorities are opening a criminal investigation into 94-year-old Jewish WWII hero, Col. Boris Steckler, who is accused of having killed a Nazi collaborator.
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  #63  
Old 16 May 17, 08:14
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Ukrainian government blocks Russian social networks and internet services:
https://www.kyivpost.com/technology/...d-ukraine.html
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  #64  
Old 16 May 17, 08:42
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Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree on May 16 blocking access to the websites and imposing a range of sanctions on Russian companies and individuals.

The decree enacts an April 28 decision of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, which drew up a long list of physical persons and legal entities to be sanctioned. The sanctions officially come in action from the day the decree was published — also May 16.
Sounds like a "foreign agents" law, or "unpatriotic activities", tailored to the specific situation, hardly surprising - seems all the rage in the East these days.

Turkey, Bulgaria, Poland, Russia so why not Ukraine..
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  #65  
Old 16 May 17, 12:43
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No, the motivation is to punish Russian companies. They also banned Russian antivirus software and electronic accounting systems. Given that the last are practically the only one in use on the market you can easily imagine the amount of mess created.
In general these measures are in line with various "economical blockades" enacted earlier which have led to the principal effect summarized on the picture:



Broadly speaking the problem of Ukrainian nationalist thinking is that whereas usual nationalists (at least in theory) want their nation striving, Ukrainians mostly want to make trouble to Muscovites whatever the price is.

Last edited by Artyom_A; 16 May 17 at 15:18..
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  #66  
Old 17 May 17, 02:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
No, the motivation is to punish Russian companies. They also banned Russian antivirus software and electronic accounting systems. Given that the last are practically the only one in use on the market you can easily imagine the amount of mess created.
In general these measures are in line with various "economical blockades" enacted earlier which have led to the principal effect summarized on the picture:

(...)

Broadly speaking the problem of Ukrainian nationalist thinking is that whereas usual nationalists (at least in theory) want their nation striving, Ukrainians mostly want to make trouble to Muscovites whatever the price is.
No doubt yes, but the measure in itself is not unusual, China for example has been censoring the net for decades now.

Turkey on several occasions shut down the internet entirely.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/20/tu...assassination/

Bulgarian government proposed a law specifically designed to close the Open European University, presumably to limit the spread of liberal propaganda there.

Similar laws are considered in Poland iirc.

There's a clear pattern there...

Quote:
They also banned Russian antivirus software and electronic accounting systems.
This for example would seem to be an obvious way to try and limit Russian influence in Ukraine, in regard to cybersecurity.
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Last edited by Snowygerry; 17 May 17 at 02:50..
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  #67  
Old 17 May 17, 07:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
No doubt yes, but the measure in itself is not unusual, China for example has been censoring the net for decades now.

This for example would seem to be an obvious way to try and limit Russian influence in Ukraine, in regard to cybersecurity.
Again, the officially quoted motivation is to sanction Russian companies. Not censorship, not anything else. There are plenty of Russian folks in Facebook or Twitter or YouTube after all. Cyber-security measures could be reasonable but not when they are implemented in a shock manner. Right now the Ukrainian government is increasing cyber-security by wreaking havoc by themselves.

Last edited by Artyom_A; 17 May 17 at 13:07..
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  #68  
Old 17 May 17, 07:29
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Considering in 2005 2/3 of Russian companies were private enterprise, but by 2015 2/3 were government controlled through various mechanisms — it's not entirely improbable a Ukranian general move on Russian companies also limits potential Russian government influence. Disruptive as the move is for literally millions of ordinary Ukrainians.

Last edited by Johan Banér; 17 May 17 at 08:02..
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  #69  
Old 17 May 17, 08:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom_A View Post
Again, the officially quoted motivation is to sanction Russian companies.
Yes, and I don't believe the officially quoted motivation, even one bit

Authoritarian governments will try to control the flow of information and opinion, and they are "right" in that regard.
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Old 17 May 17, 13:15
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Your mistake is that you search for some rational motives of Ukrainian government. In reality they are just headless chicken. They are not capable of pursuing some nation-scale rational goals even in the short term. Except enrichment of some specific actors, naturally. That's a general problem of the Ukrainian state: there is no such notion as national interest, only interests of some private figures.
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  #71  
Old 17 May 17, 18:23
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Yes, well, since there are Russians who approvingly quote an old saying according to which when a Ukranian gets smart, he becomes a Russian — it might not mean too much when a Russian predicts anything the Ukrainians do will be a failure.

Besides, the Ukranians don't need to succeed in this. The war Russia has foisted on them collectively is precisely the kind of thing that creates nations. Just having the shared experience between them, but not with any other post-Soviets, will do the job.
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Old 18 May 17, 05:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
This for example would seem to be an obvious way to try and limit Russian influence in Ukraine, in regard to cybersecurity.
You should also keep in mind that were are talking about legally bought software. By banning this soft the government simply robs users who paid money for it.
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Old 18 May 17, 05:11
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Yes I understand, not saying it's a good idea or any advantage will come of it,

just that I can understand how they would come to such a conclusion and that it doesn't surprise me at all.
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  #74  
Old 18 May 17, 05:13
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Originally Posted by Johan Banér View Post
Just having the shared experience between them, but not with any other post-Soviets, will do the job.
The shared experience of Ukrainian citizens killing each others? That will do the job for sure.
Thus far the results of Ukrainian nation-building has been not impressive - Ukraine is the principal loser of post-soviet states.
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Old 18 May 17, 05:24
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Well I imagine the "nation building" - if any - will be done separately on both sides of the front.

The chance of Ukraine uniting again as it was seem slim now.

But wars have been known to provoke feelings of nationalism at least, or even nationalist movements.

Flemish nationalism can be traced for a large part to WWI for example, even though army itself was unionist.


Don't know if you can call it "nation building" though....
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