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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #16  
Old 02 Feb 17, 07:10
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Basurin is just a speaker, not exercising real command, wich I have reason to believe it's exercised by Russian generals. But is interesting that there are rumours of counterattack against Avdeyevka and that this talk is greenlighted by Moscow. After all, even if the Russian generals exercise operational command, for the sake of efficiency, is no less true that ultimately authority rests on the Novorussian leaders and that the troops take their orders from them.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/02/por...ders-dprs.html
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  #17  
Old 02 Feb 17, 07:24
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Well that's mature, Mon Colonel; really flexing your debating muscles.

In any case, given that Fort-Russ is apologetically one-sided and begins its article: According to Deputy Commander and Spokesman of the Ministry of Defense of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Eduard Basurin the value and validity of what follows is inherently questionable.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 09:38
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Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
No, just intrigued that a news site that is US-government sponsored and to which your tendency (from previous threads) is a knew-jerk reaction of dismissal, is suddenly valid if it reports something with which you agree. That, sunshine, is known as cherry-picking and is intellectually inconsistent
If even such pro-Ukrainian/anti-Russian publication tells about the Ukrainians initiating offensive, it's something they find way too hard to conceal.

It's so simple, isn't it: when it's from RT, it's "Russian propaganda", when it's from RFERL, the direct opposite of RT, it's "hey, look who brought it up, don't look at the facts". You've really made sure nothing could even dent the confortable coccoon of your petrified bias, eh?

Quote:
I have no such view; I have doubts about the conduct of the Russian government, not a chip on my shoulder about the Russian people. I do not hold up the Ukrainian government as angels, either. The conflict in Easter Ukraine is a very complicated affair and as with most wars any judgement of inherent right or wrong is unhelpful.
Therefore, dear boy, you are here only to shoot the messenger and to commit a "character assassination" or "character attack". As for the judgement, don't be a hypocrite, you've passed it thousands of times here.

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On a personal note, please avoid use of the ghastly American term butthurt; it does supreme disservice to your otherwise excellent English.
I'm afraid I'll have to resort to using the word as it's extremely fitting to describe a person's disruptive and irrelevant remarks often issued in a discussion when one resents certain facts which don't match with his preferred worldview. No language should be afraid of loan word, especially when they fit so well!
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  #19  
Old 02 Feb 17, 09:45
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Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
Well that's mature, Mon Colonel; really flexing your debating muscles.

In any case, given that Fort-Russ is apologetically one-sided and begins its article: According to Deputy Commander and Spokesman of the Ministry of Defense of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Eduard Basurin the value and validity of what follows is inherently questionable.
I got the same treatment, and am apparently a nazi as well. Juntz is not really a person who likes discussion or having anything he says questioned. That said his posts are extremely informative and quite useful on this subject; as long as you know how much salt you need to get rid of all the propaganda and other nazi nonsense.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 11:20
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If even such pro-Ukrainian/anti-Russian publication tells about the Ukrainians initiating offensive, it's something they find way too hard to conceal.
Or maybe it is simply true; not all news sites find it necessary to fabricate everything. Not all have an agenda. Some of them - and I know it is hard to believe - do make an effort to report what is occurring. Again, my interest was that this was reliable only when it agreed with what you thought but not under other circumstances.

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It's so simple, isn't it: when it's from RT, it's "Russian propaganda", when it's from RFERL, the direct opposite of RT, it's "hey, look who brought it up, don't look at the facts". You've really made sure nothing could even dent the confortable coccoon of your petrified bias, eh?
Much as I enjoy your alliteration, I am afraid that you are misunderstanding my point. I do, as a matter of fact, consider RT to be 95% rubbish (and I've had the dubious honour of been on one of their English language discussion programmes). What I meant was; if RFE is a US propaganda piece, that you are assigning it credibility when it suits you seems a little shallow

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Therefore, dear boy, you are here only to shoot the messenger and to commit a "character assassination" or "character attack". As for the judgement, don't be a hypocrite, you've passed it thousands of times here.
Something of which you and your ally Col. Juntz are innocent? In the spirit of disputing the statement not the stater, please re-read the sentence I wrote and dispute it.

Quote:
I'm afraid I'll have to resort to using the word as it's extremely fitting to describe a person's disruptive and irrelevant remarks often issued in a discussion when one resents certain facts which don't match with his preferred worldview. No language should be afraid of loan word, especially when they fit so well!
It is a poor-man's term, demonstrating a lack of articulation but entirely suitable for moronic social media and similarly low-brow interchanges; I would not be surprised if it featured soon in one of Trump's twats (or it is 'tweets'?).

It reflects ill on you, but[t] if you like using it then of course you should feel free to continue.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 11:34
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  #22  
Old 02 Feb 17, 11:42
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Just ignore them and share news, specially those of you that know Russian.


Summary report of today's fighting, unusual since they are published the day after

Quote:
AFU violate “ceasefire regime” over 1,600 times, 38 house-buildings damaged
Thursday, February 2, 2017 - 17:47

Ukrainian military opened fire at the territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) over 1,600 times over the past 24 hours, the Vice-Commander of the Operational Command of the Republic Eduard Basurin states.

“The situation in the Donetsk People’s Republic remains very tense. Over the past day Ukraine’s criminal forces shelled the territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic 1,617 times,” said Eduard Basurin.

Ukrainian punishers used heavy artillery 374 times, MRLS 40 times, mortars of various caliber 429 times, infantry fighting vehicles 53 times, anti-aircraft installations, grenade launchers and small arms 721 times.

According to Basurin, the Makyevka, Gorlovka and Donetsk areas were intensively shelled. The settlements of Yasinovataya, Gorlovka, Telmanovsky and Novoazovsk districts, Dokuchayevsk and Donetsk were under Ukrainian military’s fire.

“The enemy was conducting concentrated fire with all types of weapons prohibited by the Minsk agreements. Thirty-eight houses and buildings were damaged by AFU fire. Seventeen houses and house-buildings in Makeyevka were seriously damaged as well,” added the Vice-Commander.

DONi News Agency

Comments:

It seems the enemy pressure is diminishing after 5 days of attacks, due to losses and the strong resistance, however, combats continue to be hard.


800 bombardment strikes, of wich half with artillery and rockets (40)

This afternoon was reported around 15:30 local time (I may be off by 1 hour) of 100 rocket explosions in a 3 minute interval in the outskirts of Avdeyevka, so we can discard that the 40 figure refers to single rockets, but means 40 rocket strikes ranging from a few shots to the entire package. In the worst case, that would amount to 1.600 rockets, wich would still be lower than the number of shells and bombs fired today.

A militiaman reported that the use of multiple rocket launchers is more a sign of desperation than a show of strength, given how scarce ammo for them is.

It's obvious by now that the Ukrainian infantry attacks have been repulsed, and as it's the pattern from previous occasions, fight becomes artillery duels, as troops request artillery fire against resistance, or to hold against counterattacks. The proportion of artillery fire has increased again to 50%, while it was around 30% before.

The first blow is always hardest, but unless the enemy uses reserves, a breakthrough in the Donetsk city sector can be discarded, but there may be another attempts in other sectors. Still, the battle will be long.

Update:

18:00h Reports arriving - fighting escalating this evening everywhere at the frontline except LPR so far

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Old 02 Feb 17, 12:36
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DONi News Agency


Meanwhile...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0
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Old 02 Feb 17, 15:10
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Reports that Ukrainians fired a Tochka missile on a residential area, it seems it was intercepted in the air and destroyed by air defense, this is not the first time it happens, and seems Russia has deployed a very effective anti missile system in Donbass.

Unlike other missiles that were aimed at factories, this was fired straight at a residential area with the aim of causing mass civilian casualties and panic.

This could be the last straw...


UPDATE

Here come the tanks! Besides those seen in the streets of Avdeyevka, under the blind gaze of OSCE



Krasnogorovka direction:, enemy tanks of up 2 companies, taking positions on Krasnogorovka line



ATTENTION! IN ALL THE REPUBLIC declared a total alarm!



Color me surprised. I didn't expect a full assault so soon, not in Donetsk city sector yet


Locals report heavy bombardments, artillery, mortars and rockets not only around Donetsk, but also in the south at Kominternov
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Old 02 Feb 17, 16:46
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Originally Posted by von Junzt View Post

Reports that Ukrainians fired a Tochka missile on a residential area, it seems it was intercepted in the air and destroyed by air defense, this is not the first time it happens, and seems Russia has deployed a very effective anti missile system in Donbass.
Russia has deployed?
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Old 03 Feb 17, 04:06
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Russia has deployed?
Yup - didn't you get the memo, denial is no longer deemed necessary

I found out recently when discussing events in Crimea, everything that was denied at the time is suddenly confirmed.

I expect the same will happen here.

Not that I hold it against the Russians mind you, deploying air defence against mindless missile attacks is something most here would agree with I imagine...

Thanks for keeping us informed - the affair is going sorely underreported here..
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Old 03 Feb 17, 05:23
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New powerful shelling of Donetsk during this night:
http://www.bbc.com/russian/news-38852160
2 civilians killed and 10+ wounded. As usual Ukrainian media deny any shots from the Ukrainian side and say that "terrorists" shell their own positions in the city:
http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donet...ka-794429.html
http://news.bigmir.net/ukraine/10563...s-boepripasami
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Old 03 Feb 17, 06:43
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Originally Posted by Snowygerry View Post
Yup - didn't you get the memo, denial is no longer deemed necessary
Nope. I never denied it. I searched long and hard for any evidence that indicated Russian support for Novorussia during the dark days of the summer of 2014 and I could never find anything. I am not Russian and I do not receive orders or instructions from anyone. I understand the reasons of some Russian acquaintances to be silent about Russian involvement in Donbass, but I do not agree with them.

I am not stupid and I am aware of the state of the art in missiles. To shoot down the Tochka missiles is an impressive feat, given the lackluster record of Patriot missiles against SCUDs. Either the Russians are years ahead, or they have some sort of long range active electronic jamming capable of making the warheads self-detonate in flight. I am deducing based on the distances and interception times involved, if that there's a SAM system shooting down those Tochkas, it must be deployed in Donbass and close to the frontlines. I have no evidence whatsoever to back this up, but is basic rocket science. However, no one has seen or recorded any trails so it could be some kind of electronic secret weapon.

It's only since 2016 I have seen conclusive evidence of Russian support, wich is afraid to say, drops in a bucket. In contrast to the lavish aid to the Syrian army, Russia just supplies enough aid to prevent civilian deaths from starvation and to prevent the militias from being defeated, or rather say, to balance out the aid given to the enemy by their sponsors.

It's nothing that should be hidden, not anymore, nor reprobable. Yes, Russia aids the rebels. So what? The West keeps the war going by lending money to the Ukrainian regime. The big difference is that the Novorussians could do without Russian support, but the Kiev junta would collapse if financial support was cut and the war would come to a swift end.

The only lament is that Russia does not put an end to the war by giving more support to the rebels so they can defeat the Ukrainian regime. I understand that doing so would have bad consequences for Russia and the need to win time for Russia's rearmament program, but despite all options being bad, by now is not a question if opting for the lesser evil, but when.

Quote:
deploying air defence against mindless missile attacks is something most
here would agree with I imagine...
Not at all. Most of the posters here have no objection to torture of prisoners, burning people alive, or mass indiscriminate shelling of civilians and using famine as a weapon of war to wipe the population from Donbass.

I have yet to see a single condemnation of Ukrainian crimes or even compassion for the victims.

They all are frustrated that their proxy has been defeated and the US and the EU imperialist ambitions have been thwarted. Many American posters are raving mad that Russia has dared defy American might in Syria and Ukraine and got away with it. Those people see Russia as an enemy to be destroyed, and are ruthless about the cost for the peoples caught in the struggle.
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Last edited by von Junzt; 03 Feb 17 at 06:51..
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Old 03 Feb 17, 07:58
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DNR officials say 6 civilians killed and 34 wounded from artillery strikes in the last weeks, also 18 military killed and 26 wounded:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/548371
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Old 03 Feb 17, 08:17
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Originally Posted by von Junzt View Post
(...) It's only since 2016 I have seen conclusive evidence of Russian support, wich is afraid to say, drops in a bucket. In contrast to the lavish aid to the Syrian army, Russia just supplies enough aid to prevent civilian deaths from starvation and to prevent the militias from being defeated, or rather say, to balance out the aid given to the enemy by their sponsors.
It supplies them with enough aid to prevent them from losing the war.

Sometimes losing a war is preferable to being used as a proxy in that same war - though choice to make though, I agree.

If the East Ukrainians ever find themselves in as hopeless as a position as Assad did at one point, they will receive comparable amounts of aid.

Not to help them win - mind you, just to keep them going and improve the Russian position.

And that's why I detest large nation states, and their policies,

but to each his own...

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Originally Posted by von Junzt View Post
(...) Not at all. Most of the posters here have no objection to torture of prisoners, burning people alive, or mass indiscriminate shelling of civilians and using famine as a weapon of war to wipe the population from Donbass.

I have yet to see a single condemnation of Ukrainian crimes or even compassion for the victims.

They all are frustrated that their proxy has been defeated and the US and the EU imperialist ambitions have been thwarted. Many American posters are raving mad that Russia has dared defy American might in Syria and Ukraine and got away with it. Those people see Russia as an enemy to be destroyed, and are ruthless about the cost for the peoples caught in the struggle.
You may be surprised yet.

Quote:
Either the Russians are years ahead, or they have some sort of long range active electronic jamming capable of making the warheads self-detonate in flight. I am deducing based on the distances and interception times involved, if that there's a SAM system shooting down those Tochkas, it must be deployed in Donbass and close to the frontlines. I have no evidence whatsoever to back this up, but is basic rocket science. However, no one has seen or recorded any trails so it could be some kind of electronic secret weapon.
The Ukrainians shoot down their own missiles obviously - if you're stupid enough to take down a Malaysian airliner,

surely you can shoot down a Toshka missile

Unbelievable.
__________________
High The Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor - The Napoleonic Wars Campaign.

Captain Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

Last edited by Snowygerry; 03 Feb 17 at 08:30..
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