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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Russia, Central Asia, and The Caucasus > Ukrainian Crisis

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Ukrainian Crisis Discuss the unfolding crisis in Ukraine.

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  #1  
Old 01 Feb 17, 09:05
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Chronicles of the Civil War 2017

Hi

Unfortunately not much time to post news from Ukraine.

continued from http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=172206

In January 2017 we can observe dramatical increasing of fights at many zones of the frontline.
The most hot are in so called Svetlodarsk arc and Avdeevka industrial area.

Reported about dozens of KIA and WIA soldiers from both sides.
Of course nobody will say exactly how many victims sufferd armed forces of both sides, but looks that Ukrainian Army suffers more casaulities trying to attack republic forces by small groups.
(addon. - for the past day DNR forces reported about 93 KIA and 300+ WIA Ukrainian soldiers)

Now we can see massive artillery and GRAD fire.

Morever, something new was noticed - remains of AA "Buk" missile fallen to the ground in Makeevka area. Reported it was shot by UA forces against OSCE drone observing situation.




http://rusvesna.su/news/1485948742
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Last edited by amvas; 01 Feb 17 at 09:47..
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  #2  
Old 01 Feb 17, 10:16
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This is from Radio Liberty / Radio Free Europe!

Anxious Ukraine Risks Escalation In 'Creeping Offensive'

Quote:
Frustrated by the stalemate in this 33-month war of attrition, concerned that Western support is waning, and sensing that U.S. President Donald Trump could cut Kyiv out of any peace negotiations as he tries to improve fraught relations with Moscow, Ukrainian forces anxious to show their newfound strength have gone on what many here are calling a "creeping offensive."

Observers say the Ukrainians appear to be trying to create new facts on the ground, while officials and commanders insist they are fighting to stop the flow of contraband into separatist-controlled territories and fending off attempts by separatist groups that call themselves the Donetsk and Luhansk "people's republics" to seize more territory.

Whatever the case, since mid-December Ukraine's armed forces have edged farther into parts of the gray zone in or near the war-worn cities of Avdiivka, Debaltseve, Dokuchaievsk, Horlivka, and Mariupol, shrinking the space between them and the separatist fighters.

In doing so, the pro-Kyiv troops have sparked bloody clashes with their enemy, which has reportedly made advances of its own -- or tried to -- in recent weeks.
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  #3  
Old 01 Feb 17, 11:57
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This is from Radio Liberty / Radio Free Europe!
But surely RFE is a cowardly, US government mouth-peace that provides doctored reports to further the US' imperialist ambition?

At least, that is the usual line from our Russian friends about any source daring to report on Ukraine that is not RT or similar. Could it actually be possible that a non-Russian - or even a US source - might actually be factually accurate?
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Old 01 Feb 17, 12:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
But surely RFE is a cowardly, US government mouth-peace that provides doctored reports to further the US' imperialist ambition?
That's why ShAA was being ironic. It proves that masters at Washington have changed, and there are orders from above to change the tune.


Quote:
Could it actually be possible that a non-Russian - or even a US source - might actually be factually accurate?
In the mainstream media of the US and Europe, none whatsoever. If they are not lies, they are just keeping silence about the Ukraine war, wich is plain censorship. The problem is that the US and EU involvement in the Ukraine civil war is so criminal and undefensible, that the order in the media is to no talk about it and pretend it does not exist.


You have to visit alternative sources like message boards, not this forum, sorry to say, wich besides a few dissenters is overwhelmingly Russophobe, and I have to be grateful yet to the mods for getting away with so much.

Other alternative sources are blogs, (like mine),or some small digital newspapers, but they have a modest following, and digital media also belong to larger media groups, so is hard to find any dissenting voice or accurate reporter.

There's the occasional dissenter in opinion columns, but in the best of cases these strive for equidistance, and blame both sides equally.

Stories that are favourable or at least present the voice of the Russian side are very few, usually restricted to the newspaper o weekly magazines and such a rarity that I can count them with the fingers of one hand, in these three years.

If you get into academic or military professional publications, not directed to the general public, you may get something approaching to the truth. I was pleasantly surprised to find an article in the official Spanish Navy magazine that basically recognized that Crimea is Russian, the people of Crimea are Russians and rejoined Russia on their own will, and we should not get involved at all in a conflict with Russia, but is open to question if that view is shared by the top brass, wich might well be, else it would not have been published, unfortunately the government not only has its hands and feet bound but it's also gagged and can only do what Washington and Berlin order.

I tried to find it in PDF, but no luck.
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Old 01 Feb 17, 13:07
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Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
At least, that is the usual line from our Russian friends about any source daring to report on Ukraine that is not RT or similar. Could it actually be possible that a non-Russian - or even a US source - might actually be factually accurate?
Just reminds me of one of my favorite historical anecdotes:
http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/01/29/t...e-progression/
Not that any of headlines wasn't factually accurate.
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Old 01 Feb 17, 14:03
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Quote:
That's why ShAA was being ironic. It proves that masters at Washington have changed, and there are orders from above to change the tune.
Was he? Are you? Difficult to tell.

Quote:
In the mainstream media of the US and Europe, none whatsoever. If they are not lies, they are just keeping silence about the Ukraine war, wich is plain censorship. The problem is that the US and EU involvement in the Ukraine civil war is so criminal and undefensible, that the order in the media is to no talk about it and pretend it does not exist.
You are, I presume, aware of amusement rants like this afford anyone who has not signed up to your binary world view?

Excellent and very true
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Old 01 Feb 17, 15:47
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Was he? Are you? Difficult to tell.

Same here. Difficult to tell if you are ironic or something else. I will give you the benefit of doubt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
You are, I presume, aware of amusement rants like this afford anyone who has not signed up to your binary world view?
In this war there's only one side committing the atrocities. There are only victims and murderers. Kill or be killed. In the end everything comes down to that binary choice.

Where do you stand? With us or against us? With the Ukrainian nazis or their victims?

I could also say that I reject the binary worldview shared by many people here that are still mentally living in the Cold War and see Russia as the Soviet Union and the source of all evil and to blame for everything.


All your ironical comments do not change the fact that the coverage of the Ukraine's civil war is scarce on purpose and entirely one sided. I dare you to post examples of the West criticizing the Ukrainian junta human rights record or the war crimes of the Ukrainian military, or admitting the utter defeat it suffered in 2014 and the actual death toll of the war. I have posted that data. Can you?

Come to think of it. Has the media shown any images or video of the civilian deaths and shelling of Donbass cities? Any at all? In three years?

Because as far as I can remember the only time dead civilians have ever been mentioned was on two occasions when it happened in junta territory by accidental firing by Ukrainian troops (Grad strike in Mariupol, and passengers at a checkpoint running away and tripping a mine) and the Ukrainians put the blame on the rebels.


Compare that to all the coverage and (fake) outrage about Syrian and Russian army bombardments of Aleppo.

You can throw snide remarks and mocking comments about my "rants", it will not change the fact that what I said is the unvarnished truth. The Western media has elected to censor this war, and that glaring omission is particularly damning. That the Western media spew propaganda, fake news, and outright lies is debatable. The media blackout on Ukraine's war is unprecedented and would make even the casual observer wonder what they have to hide?

Unlike others, what I report is the truth, as far as I can prove it.

I am not amused. You know where to shove your attitude together with the rest of Russophobes. Either contribute news to the thread, or at least admit you know nothing and make room for others.
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Last edited by von Junzt; 02 Feb 17 at 03:45..
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Old 01 Feb 17, 15:59
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Translation of Cassad analysis

Is the War in Donbass Back On? 3 Possible Scenarios

http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/02/is-...-possible.html

Eduard Popov Donbass sitrep: Ukrainian losses "colossal," shelling at 2014 level

http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/02/edu...ukrainian.html
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Old 01 Feb 17, 16:02
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Old 01 Feb 17, 20:04
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Fort-russ? Well there is an impartial, disinterest source. Well done

Quote:
Unlike others, what I report is the truth, as far as I can prove it.
No, you report Russian-apologist news sites. Your view is entirely binary, to wit; all is ill with Ukraine and Mr Putin's Russia is a blameless victim that just happend to invade Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Oh, and the passengers of MH 17 might also disagree.

Statements like this:

Quote:
Where do you stand? With us or against us? With the Ukrainian nazis or their victims?
Rather undermines your position.

Still, sure your location 'lost in space and time' provides you with the cosmic karma required to evaluate disinterestedly the sum of suffering and blame in this scenario.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 02:01
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Originally Posted by von Junzt View Post
In this war there's only one side committing the atrocities.
Yet both sides are reporting them. That does't make one of them more believable than the other. That the rebels are preventing those from being investigated does place huge doubts on what the rebels are reporting.
Quote:
You can throw snide remarks and mocking comments about my "rants", it will not change the fact that what I said is the unvarnished truth. The Western media has elected to censor this war, and that glaring omission is particularly damning. That the Western media spew propaganda, fake news, and outright lies is debatable. The media blackout on Ukraine's war is unprecedented and would make even the casual observer wonder what they have to hide?
Given that the media blackout is actually caused by the rebels themselves that indeed makes the casual observer wonder as to what the rebels want to hide. Or did you already forget that the rebels themselves instituted that blackout? And that it resulted because the western media refused to allow the rebels to control & censor their information.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 06:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
But surely RFE is a cowardly, US government mouth-peace that provides doctored reports to further the US' imperialist ambition?

At least, that is the usual line from our Russian friends about any source daring to report on Ukraine that is not RT or similar. Could it actually be possible that a non-Russian - or even a US source - might actually be factually accurate?
It seems like you switch to debating the messenger rather than the message when you don't like it

If you want to claim that the facts and the interview are fake, make this claim. If not, comment on them. If you are butthurt about them and just want to draw everybody's attention from something what puts a big fat spanner in the works of your preferred narrative of "evil Russians started their aggression against poor cute fluffy little innocent Ukrainians" - bugger off.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 07:34
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It seems like you switch to debating the messenger rather than the message when you don't like it
No, just intrigued that a news site that is US-government sponsored and to which your tendency (from previous threads) is a knew-jerk reaction of dismissal, is suddenly valid if it reports something with which you agree. That, sunshine, is known as cherry-picking and is intellectually inconsistent

Quote:
If you want to claim that the facts and the interview are fake, make this claim. If not, comment on them. If you are butthurt about them and just want to draw everybody's attention from something what puts a big fat spanner in the works of your preferred narrative of "evil Russians started their aggression against poor cute fluffy little innocent Ukrainians" - bugger off.
I have no such view; I have doubts about the conduct of the Russian government, not a chip on my shoulder about the Russian people. I do not hold up the Ukrainian government as angels, either. The conflict in Easter Ukraine is a very complicated affair and as with most wars any judgement of inherent right or wrong is unhelpful.

On a personal note, please avoid use of the ghastly American term butthurt; it does supreme disservice to your otherwise excellent English.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 07:35
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Meanwhile, Ukrainian authorities say that their An-26 airplane received shots while flying over the oil platform over Crimean waters:
http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...upied-oil-rig/
http://tass.com/defense/928558

One cannot help an impression that the Ukrainian government does the beast it can to provoke a new escalation.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 08:04
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Quote:
Meanwhile, Ukrainian authorities say that their An-26 airplane received shots while flying over the oil platform over Crimean waters:
It seemed to have a single hole in the rear fuselage from the shots I saw: https://liveuamap.com/en/2017/1-febr...s-at-ukrainian

Quote:
One cannot help an impression that the Ukrainian government does the beast it can to provoke a new escalation.
Continuation of politics, my friend.
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