HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Books, Film and Media > Film, DVD, and TV

Notices and Announcements

Film, DVD, and TV Discuss the latest movies at the theatre and on DVD, as well as what is on TV. ACG film reviews will also be found here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 01 Feb 17, 15:51
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Psst, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
His is, but he is sitting in the hold of a ship he just purchased, which he discovered has been used as a slaver.

Besides being about half-insane, he has very painful memories of slave ships.

... I dig, I caught Taboo on the BBC.
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02 Feb 17, 03:31
Skoblin's Avatar
Skoblin Skoblin is offline
ACG Forums - Field Marshal
Pirate
Distinguished Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft SPQR Campaign Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The city on the river
Posts: 17,475
Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Skoblin has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck's Luck View Post
Can I ask another question?

Did they really say the 'F' word - you know the one .. so often back then?

Was it used in normal speech as it is now?
The preferred expletive of choice in 1814 was wobblebottoms!
__________________
This area for rent. Contact me for details..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02 Feb 17, 04:45
Tuck's Luck's Avatar
Tuck's Luck Tuck's Luck is offline
General
Wales
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Jennie
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 4,448
Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800]
Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoblin View Post
The preferred expletive of choice in 1814 was wobblebottoms!
You are making that up!

__________________
"COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
- Mad Jack Churchill.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02 Feb 17, 10:51
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Not really ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck's Luck View Post
You are making that up!

... the proper term was "fecking wobblebottoms", he was just being polite - 1814 English had subtle nuances.
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02 Feb 17, 11:47
Tuck's Luck's Avatar
Tuck's Luck Tuck's Luck is offline
General
Wales
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Jennie
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 4,448
Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800]
Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... the proper term was "fecking wobblebottoms", he was just being polite - 1814 English had subtle nuances.
Yes that sounds more like it!


__________________
"COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
- Mad Jack Churchill.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #21  
Old 02 Feb 17, 12:09
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
The other half ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
His is, but he is sitting in the hold of a ship he just purchased, which he discovered has been used as a slaver.

Besides being about half-insane, he has very painful memories of slave ships.
... of what I wanted to say before I had to run. I like the series, but utilizing the East India Company i.e. EIC is out and out incorrect, they weren't anywhere near the Nootka Sound. The British corporation involved, and should have been depicted, is the long lived Hudson's Bay Company i.e. the HBC. They were a chartered monopoly like the EIC (the charters don't overlap), and they'd been building posts and trading in furs et. al. on the West Coast i.e. Columbia/Oregon well before the War of 1812 AND the British Royal Family owned shares in the HBC (now that makes for good television). What's more, the HBC were virtually at war with their major competitor, the Montreal based North West Company i.e. NWC, which basically took over what the French had when they left.

The NWC playing the role of mercenary under British command, had taken the lead in the take over of Fort Michilimackinac (Mackinac) from the US Army early in the War of 1812. The Royal Navy took John Jacob Astor's Pacific Fur Company PFC post Fort Astoria during the war, the NWC then just moved in, named it Fort George. The British Gov't ended their feud and forced the HBC and NWC to merge in 1821, the fur trade was dying anyway, that year usually serves as marking its death, the resulting combined HBC began streamlining its fur trading operations, diversified into lumber, merchandise, opened an office in Hawaii... a famous close to war incident involved an HBC pig and a certain USA Capt. George Pickett, but cooler heads prevailed.

Slaves were part of the equation as well, had been for a long time. The French/Canadien traders had dealt in slaves with their client FN's, in fact the Canadien word for slave was "Panis", pronounced "Pawnee", the Sioux were #2 on the list in availability to be sent to Quebec, thanks to their hereditary enemies the Ottawa, Ojibwa, etc. The first British Governor of Vancouver was a Mulatto born in Guyana, Sir James Douglas, a former NWC/HBC trader.

The HBC had it all, except Cathay, Malays, and the allure of India and the East, so screw history, the BBC viewers must be appeased!
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot

Last edited by Marmat; 02 Feb 17 at 14:45..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03 Feb 17, 11:58
Tuck's Luck's Avatar
Tuck's Luck Tuck's Luck is offline
General
Wales
5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Real Name: Jennie
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 4,448
Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800]
Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800] Tuck's Luck gives and gets respect [800]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... of what I wanted to say before I had to run. I like the series, but utilizing the East India Company i.e. EIC is out and out incorrect, they weren't anywhere near the Nootka Sound. The British corporation involved, and should have been depicted, is the long lived Hudson's Bay Company i.e. the HBC. They were a chartered monopoly like the EIC (the charters don't overlap), and they'd been building posts and trading in furs et. al. on the West Coast i.e. Columbia/Oregon well before the War of 1812 AND the British Royal Family owned shares in the HBC (now that makes for good television). What's more, the HBC were virtually at war with their major competitor, the Montreal based North West Company i.e. NWC, which basically took over what the French had when they left.

The NWC playing the role of mercenary under British command, had taken the lead in the take over of Fort Michilimackinac (Mackinac) from the US Army early in the War of 1812. The Royal Navy took John Jacob Astor's Pacific Fur Company PFC post Fort Astoria during the war, the NWC then just moved in, named it Fort George. The British Gov't ended their feud and forced the HBC and NWC to merge in 1821, the fur trade was dying anyway, that year usually serves as marking its death, the resulting combined HBC began streamlining its fur trading operations, diversified into lumber, merchandise, opened an office in Hawaii... a famous close to war incident involved an HBC pig and a certain USA Capt. George Pickett, but cooler heads prevailed.

Slaves were part of the equation as well, had been for a long time. The French/Canadien traders had dealt in slaves with their client FN's, in fact the Canadien word for slave was "Panis", pronounced "Pawnee", the Sioux were #2 on the list in availability to be sent to Quebec, thanks to their hereditary enemies the Ottawa, Ojibwa, etc. The first British Governor of Vancouver was a Mulatto born in Guyana, Sir James Douglas, a former NWC/HBC trader.

The HBC had it all, except Cathay, Malays, and the allure of India and the East, so screw history, the BBC viewers must be appeased!
Very interesting Marmat - thanks for posting!

__________________
"COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
- Mad Jack Churchill.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03 Feb 17, 13:15
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Thanks Jen ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck's Luck View Post
Very interesting Marmat - thanks for posting!

n/t
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03 Feb 17, 17:05
Dibble201Bty's Avatar
Dibble201Bty Dibble201Bty is offline
General of the Forums
England
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul B
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albans
Posts: 10,860
Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... of what I wanted to say before I had to run. I like the series, but utilizing the East India Company i.e. EIC is out and out incorrect, they weren't anywhere near the Nootka Sound. The British corporation involved, and should have been depicted, is the long lived Hudson's Bay Company i.e. the HBC. They were a chartered monopoly like the EIC (the charters don't overlap), and they'd been building posts and trading in furs et. al. on the West Coast i.e. Columbia/Oregon well before the War of 1812 AND the British Royal Family owned shares in the HBC (now that makes for good television). What's more, the HBC were virtually at war with their major competitor, the Montreal based North West Company i.e. NWC, which basically took over what the French had when they left.

The NWC playing the role of mercenary under British command, had taken the lead in the take over of Fort Michilimackinac (Mackinac) from the US Army early in the War of 1812. The Royal Navy took John Jacob Astor's Pacific Fur Company PFC post Fort Astoria during the war, the NWC then just moved in, named it Fort George. The British Gov't ended their feud and forced the HBC and NWC to merge in 1821, the fur trade was dying anyway, that year usually serves as marking its death, the resulting combined HBC began streamlining its fur trading operations, diversified into lumber, merchandise, opened an office in Hawaii... a famous close to war incident involved an HBC pig and a certain USA Capt. George Pickett, but cooler heads prevailed.

Slaves were part of the equation as well, had been for a long time. The French/Canadien traders had dealt in slaves with their client FN's, in fact the Canadien word for slave was "Panis", pronounced "Pawnee", the Sioux were #2 on the list in availability to be sent to Quebec, thanks to their hereditary enemies the Ottawa, Ojibwa, etc. The first British Governor of Vancouver was a Mulatto born in Guyana, Sir James Douglas, a former NWC/HBC trader.

The HBC had it all, except Cathay, Malays, and the allure of India and the East, so screw history, the BBC viewers must be appeased!
Author of Article: Robin A. Fisher

" STRANGE, JAMES CHARLES STUART,

fur trader; b. 8 Aug. 1753 in Edinburgh, son of Robert Strange and Isabella Lumisden; m. first Margaret Durham; m. secondly 18 Dec. 1798 Anne Dundas, widow of Henry Drummond; d. 6 Oct. 1840 at Airth Castle, Scotland.

James Charles Stuart Strange, one of the earliest of the maritime fur traders on the northwest Pacific coast, was the son of Jacobite parents. His father, an engraver, fought under Prince Charles, the Young Pretender, and James was a godson of James, the Old Pretender. Robert Strange settled in London in 1750. James, along with his brother Thomas Andrew Lumisden, sought a career abroad. Both went to India and were successful in their respective fields: Thomas (who had served briefly as chief justice of Nova Scotia) became chief justice of the supreme court of Madras, and James a merchant in Madras with the East India Company and in private trade.

James was on leave in England when the account of Captain James Cook*’s third Pacific voyage was published in 1784 and, like a number of others, including the pioneer trader James Hanna*, he noted with great interest the suggestions made by Captain James King* on how to conduct a fur-trading expedition to the northwest coast. Strange sought the advice of Sir Joseph Banks* and, more important, secured the patronage in India of David Scott, a merchant in the China trade who wanted to loosen the East India Company’s monopoly. Together, Strange and Scott planned an expedition. They privately purchased two ships and named them Captain Cook and Experiment. Both were well fitted out and the venture received some support from the East India Company in the form of a few troops commanded by Alexander Walker*. Strange was to go with the vessels as supercargo and would have overall direction of the enterprise. The expedition, which left India in late 1785, was supposed to serve the two British interests of commerce and exploration, but in the event it made little contribution to either.

Strange was too cautious and conservative to be successful as an explorer or a trader. The expense of fitting out the expedition had escalated to the point where only a major trading success could repay the investment. But the voyage was beset by misfortune from the beginning. Strange was unable to purchase goods along the Malabar coast for sale in China as he had planned, and not far out of Indian waters the Experiment was holed, necessitating a call at Batavia (Djakarta, Indonesia) for repairs. Many of the crew had already gone down with scurvy and Strange was ill prepared to deal with the scourge. The China leg of the outward journey was thus abandoned, but even so the expedition did not arrive on the northwest coast until 25 June 1786. It was already late in the season, but Strange anchored at Nootka Sound (B.C.) for a month to gather what sea-otter pelts he could. He conducted the trading negotiations himself and, like other traders, found that the Nootka Indians were shrewd bargainers. More interested in safety than profit, he kept the two vessels together rather than send them out separately to cover more ground. Leaving John Mackay* to establish a permanent shore-base, Strange departed from Nootka Sound in late July and headed north. He did not see anything of the mainland between the northern tip of Vancouver Island and Alaskan waters, and at Prince William Sound he was, once again, too late in the season to acquire many furs. So he set sail for China in mid September to sell what he had.

The expedition was a financial disaster. Strange sold his furs for about £5,600, which was not enough to cover the outlay. Nor had he contributed much to exploration and science. Apart from making some discoveries in the Queen Charlotte Strait area, he had added little to geographic knowledge of the northwest coast, and he was not particularly interested in the Indians, except as potential customers, so the account of the voyage by Walker contains much more ethnographic information than Strange provides in his journal.

Back in India Strange re-entered the Madras service, but left the East India Company in 1795. He returned to England where in May 1796 he became a member of parliament for the East Grinstead borough of Sussex. Two years later he married a daughter of Henry Dundas, secretary of state for war and the colonies and a former commissioner of the Board of Control for Indian affairs. Ruined by a bank failure in 1804, Strange returned to India to make another fortune before retiring in 1815 to Scotland, where he died in 1840.

Robin A. Fisher

Strange’s account of his Pacific expedition was published as James Strange’s journal and narrative of the commercial expedition from Bombay to the north-west coast of America, together with a chart showing the tract of the expedition, intro. A. V. Venkatarama Ayyar (Madras, India, 1928; repr. 1929). The PABC holds two transcripts based on different manuscript copies of Strange’s “Narrative of a voyage to the North West Coast of America”: one is a typescript, from a copy belonging to Strange’s descendants (A/A/20/St8A), and the other a handwritten transcript of BL, India Office Library and Records [East India House Arch.], IOR, H/800: 1–145 (A/A/20/St8A2). Also at the PABC is an original manuscript by Strange of additions to Captain Cook’s vocabulary of the Nootka Sound language, 1785–86 (F/8/St8).

BL, India Office Library and Records, IOR, E/4/316–17, 24; E/4/873: 1239; E/4/875: 333; H/494: 419–27; O/6/3: 577; P/240/62: 137; P/241/4: 124; P/241/5: 603; P/241/55: 1790 (copies at PABC). PABC, E/E/St8, extracts relating to Strange; M/St8. James Cook and James King, A voyage to the Pacific Ocean . . . (3v. and atlas, London, 1784), 3: 438–40. Alexander Walker, An account of a voyage to the north west coast of America in 1785 & 1786, ed. R. [A.] Fisher and J. M. Bumsted (Vancouver, 1982). R. [A.] Fisher, Contact and conflict: Indian-European relations in British Columbia, 1774–1890 (Vancouver, 1977). B. M. Gough, Distant dominion: Britain and the northwest coast of North America, 1579–1809 (Vancouver, 1980). David MacKay, In the wake of Cook: exploration, science & empire, 1780–1801 (London, 1985)."

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/stran...stuart_7E.html

Paul
__________________
‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
All human ills he can subdue,
Or with a bauble or medal
Can win mans heart for you;
And many a blessing know to stew
To make a megloamaniac bright;
Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03 Feb 17, 20:54
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Now that ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
Author of Article: Robin A. Fisher

" STRANGE, JAMES CHARLES STUART,

fur trader; b. 8 Aug. 1753 in Edinburgh, son of Robert Strange and Isabella Lumisden; m. first Margaret Durham; m. secondly 18 Dec. 1798 Anne Dundas, widow of Henry Drummond; d. 6 Oct. 1840 at Airth Castle, Scotland.

James Charles Stuart Strange, one of the earliest of the maritime fur traders on the northwest Pacific coast, was the son of Jacobite parents. His father, an engraver, fought under Prince Charles, the Young Pretender, and James was a godson of James, the Old Pretender. Robert Strange settled in London in 1750. James, along with his brother Thomas Andrew Lumisden, sought a career abroad. Both went to India and were successful in their respective fields: Thomas (who had served briefly as chief justice of Nova Scotia) became chief justice of the supreme court of Madras, and James a merchant in Madras with the East India Company and in private trade.

James was on leave in England when the account of Captain James Cook*’s third Pacific voyage was published in 1784 and, like a number of others, including the pioneer trader James Hanna*, he noted with great interest the suggestions made by Captain James King* on how to conduct a fur-trading expedition to the northwest coast. Strange sought the advice of Sir Joseph Banks* and, more important, secured the patronage in India of David Scott, a merchant in the China trade who wanted to loosen the East India Company’s monopoly. Together, Strange and Scott planned an expedition. They privately purchased two ships and named them Captain Cook and Experiment. Both were well fitted out and the venture received some support from the East India Company in the form of a few troops commanded by Alexander Walker*. Strange was to go with the vessels as supercargo and would have overall direction of the enterprise. The expedition, which left India in late 1785, was supposed to serve the two British interests of commerce and exploration, but in the event it made little contribution to either.

Strange was too cautious and conservative to be successful as an explorer or a trader. The expense of fitting out the expedition had escalated to the point where only a major trading success could repay the investment. But the voyage was beset by misfortune from the beginning. Strange was unable to purchase goods along the Malabar coast for sale in China as he had planned, and not far out of Indian waters the Experiment was holed, necessitating a call at Batavia (Djakarta, Indonesia) for repairs. Many of the crew had already gone down with scurvy and Strange was ill prepared to deal with the scourge. The China leg of the outward journey was thus abandoned, but even so the expedition did not arrive on the northwest coast until 25 June 1786. It was already late in the season, but Strange anchored at Nootka Sound (B.C.) for a month to gather what sea-otter pelts he could. He conducted the trading negotiations himself and, like other traders, found that the Nootka Indians were shrewd bargainers. More interested in safety than profit, he kept the two vessels together rather than send them out separately to cover more ground. Leaving John Mackay* to establish a permanent shore-base, Strange departed from Nootka Sound in late July and headed north. He did not see anything of the mainland between the northern tip of Vancouver Island and Alaskan waters, and at Prince William Sound he was, once again, too late in the season to acquire many furs. So he set sail for China in mid September to sell what he had.

The expedition was a financial disaster. Strange sold his furs for about £5,600, which was not enough to cover the outlay. Nor had he contributed much to exploration and science. Apart from making some discoveries in the Queen Charlotte Strait area, he had added little to geographic knowledge of the northwest coast, and he was not particularly interested in the Indians, except as potential customers, so the account of the voyage by Walker contains much more ethnographic information than Strange provides in his journal.

Back in India Strange re-entered the Madras service, but left the East India Company in 1795. He returned to England where in May 1796 he became a member of parliament for the East Grinstead borough of Sussex. Two years later he married a daughter of Henry Dundas, secretary of state for war and the colonies and a former commissioner of the Board of Control for Indian affairs. Ruined by a bank failure in 1804, Strange returned to India to make another fortune before retiring in 1815 to Scotland, where he died in 1840.

Robin A. Fisher

Strange’s account of his Pacific expedition was published as James Strange’s journal and narrative of the commercial expedition from Bombay to the north-west coast of America, together with a chart showing the tract of the expedition, intro. A. V. Venkatarama Ayyar (Madras, India, 1928; repr. 1929). The PABC holds two transcripts based on different manuscript copies of Strange’s “Narrative of a voyage to the North West Coast of America”: one is a typescript, from a copy belonging to Strange’s descendants (A/A/20/St8A), and the other a handwritten transcript of BL, India Office Library and Records [East India House Arch.], IOR, H/800: 1–145 (A/A/20/St8A2). Also at the PABC is an original manuscript by Strange of additions to Captain Cook’s vocabulary of the Nootka Sound language, 1785–86 (F/8/St8).

BL, India Office Library and Records, IOR, E/4/316–17, 24; E/4/873: 1239; E/4/875: 333; H/494: 419–27; O/6/3: 577; P/240/62: 137; P/241/4: 124; P/241/5: 603; P/241/55: 1790 (copies at PABC). PABC, E/E/St8, extracts relating to Strange; M/St8. James Cook and James King, A voyage to the Pacific Ocean . . . (3v. and atlas, London, 1784), 3: 438–40. Alexander Walker, An account of a voyage to the north west coast of America in 1785 & 1786, ed. R. [A.] Fisher and J. M. Bumsted (Vancouver, 1982). R. [A.] Fisher, Contact and conflict: Indian-European relations in British Columbia, 1774–1890 (Vancouver, 1977). B. M. Gough, Distant dominion: Britain and the northwest coast of North America, 1579–1809 (Vancouver, 1980). David MacKay, In the wake of Cook: exploration, science & empire, 1780–1801 (London, 1985)."

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/stran...stuart_7E.html

Paul
... is interesting, and I suppose, the basis for what we're seeing. I wonder how the producers are going to use it as the show progresses ...

Strange's visit to the area was in 1786, almost 30 years before the show takes place. This is what took place in the area historically in the interim, from Wiki:


"The establishment of trading posts under the auspices of the North West Company and the Hudson's Bay Company (HBC), effectively established a permanent British presence in the region. The Columbia District was broadly defined as being south of 54°40 north latitude, (the southern limit of Russian America), north of Mexican-controlled California, and west of the Rocky Mountains. It was, by the Anglo-American Convention of 1818, under the "joint occupancy and use" of citizens of the United States and subjects of Britain (which is to say, the fur companies). This co-occupancy was ended with the Oregon Treaty of 1846.

The major supply route was the York Factory Express between Hudson Bay and Fort Vancouver. Some of the early outposts grew into settlements, communities, and cities. Among the places in British Columbia that began as fur trading posts are Fort St. John (established 1794); Hudson's Hope (1805); Fort Nelson (1805); Fort St. James (1806); Prince George (1807); Kamloops (1812); Fort Langley (1827); Fort Victoria (1843); Yale (1848); and Nanaimo (1853). Fur company posts that became cities in what is now the United States include Vancouver, Washington (Fort Vancouver), formerly the "capital" of Hudson's Bay operations in the Columbia District, Colville, Washington and Walla Walla, Washington (old Fort Nez Percés)."

Nootka's sovereignty was contested, but it was between Britain & Spain, and resolved by the "Nootka Sound Conventions"(3) of the 1790's; the US would later dovetail as part of a settlement with Spain.

"Third Nootka Convention
The third Nootka Convention also known as the Convention for the Mutual Abandonment of Nootka, was signed on January 11, 1794.[7] It called for the mutual abandonment of Nootka Sound. Britain and Spain were both free to use Nootka Sound as a port and erect temporary structures, but, "neither ... shall form any permanent establishment in the said port or claim any right of sovereignty or territorial dominion there to the exclusion of the other. And Their said Majesties will mutually aid each other to maintain for their subjects free access to the port of Nootka against any other nation which may attempt to establish there any sovereignty or dominion".[8]"

"The Spanish claims to the Pacific Northwest were acquired by the United States by the Adams-Onís Treaty, signed in 1819. The United States argued that it had acquired a right of exclusive sovereignty from Spain. This position led to a dispute with Britain known as the Oregon boundary dispute. This dispute was not resolved until the signing of the Oregon Treaty in 1846, which divided the disputed territory and established what later became the international boundary between Canada and the United States."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootka_Convention
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03 Feb 17, 21:19
Dibble201Bty's Avatar
Dibble201Bty Dibble201Bty is offline
General of the Forums
England
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul B
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albans
Posts: 10,860
Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... is interesting, and I suppose, the basis for what we're seeing. I wonder how the producers are going to use it as the show progresses ...
That's why I compared the show to a Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell type of drama....That was written by someone who screwed around with reality of the period too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonath...%26_Mr_Norrell

Paul
__________________
‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
All human ills he can subdue,
Or with a bauble or medal
Can win mans heart for you;
And many a blessing know to stew
To make a megloamaniac bright;
Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04 Feb 17, 10:35
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
I dig ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
That's why I compared the show to a Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell type of drama....That was written by someone who screwed around with reality of the period too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonath...%26_Mr_Norrell

Paul

... you're leagues ahead of me, and way over my head. I only started watching Taboo because of my youngest son who's big on FX; Hardy, Scott, 1814 and a certain comparison to Poldark that I'd read. While I confess to enjoying the series, so far, if I'd read of comparisons to the likes of Harry Potter & Game of Thrones I'd have passed.
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04 Feb 17, 14:05
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 68,824
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... of what I wanted to say before I had to run. I like the series, but utilizing the East India Company i.e. EIC is out and out incorrect, they weren't anywhere near the Nootka Sound. The British corporation involved, and should have been depicted, is the long lived Hudson's Bay Company i.e. the HBC. They were a chartered monopoly like the EIC (the charters don't overlap), and they'd been building posts and trading in furs et. al. on the West Coast i.e. Columbia/Oregon well before the War of 1812 AND the British Royal Family owned shares in the HBC (now that makes for good television). What's more, the HBC were virtually at war with their major competitor, the Montreal based North West Company i.e. NWC, which basically took over what the French had when they left.

The NWC playing the role of mercenary under British command, had taken the lead in the take over of Fort Michilimackinac (Mackinac) from the US Army early in the War of 1812. The Royal Navy took John Jacob Astor's Pacific Fur Company PFC post Fort Astoria during the war, the NWC then just moved in, named it Fort George. The British Gov't ended their feud and forced the HBC and NWC to merge in 1821, the fur trade was dying anyway, that year usually serves as marking its death, the resulting combined HBC began streamlining its fur trading operations, diversified into lumber, merchandise, opened an office in Hawaii... a famous close to war incident involved an HBC pig and a certain USA Capt. George Pickett, but cooler heads prevailed.

Slaves were part of the equation as well, had been for a long time. The French/Canadien traders had dealt in slaves with their client FN's, in fact the Canadien word for slave was "Panis", pronounced "Pawnee", the Sioux were #2 on the list in availability to be sent to Quebec, thanks to their hereditary enemies the Ottawa, Ojibwa, etc. The first British Governor of Vancouver was a Mulatto born in Guyana, Sir James Douglas, a former NWC/HBC trader.

The HBC had it all, except Cathay, Malays, and the allure of India and the East, so screw history, the BBC viewers must be appeased!

The plot settles on the desire of the EIC to gain a foothold in the lucrative Northern American market, such foothold being the contested piece of that island. This strange is presumably the son of the Strange of thirty years previous - mention is clearly made by the family servant of the hard financial times the family has fallen on - and he has inherited the hold on Nootka Sound. That makes it not at all far fetched.

So far the series is grimly engaging, full of villains and scoundrels, and even fuller of surprises. For example, what is the source of the monies Strange keeps digging up?
__________________
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04 Feb 17, 15:45
Marmat's Avatar
Marmat Marmat is offline
Brigadier General
Canada
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Denis
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Marmora, where else?
Posts: 2,493
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700] Marmat is a glorious beacon of light [700]
Now you're confused, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
The plot settles on the desire of the EIC to gain a foothold in the lucrative Northern American market, such foothold being the contested piece of that island. This strange is presumably the son of the Strange of thirty years previous - mention is clearly made by the family servant of the hard financial times the family has fallen on - and he has inherited the hold on Nootka Sound. That makes it not at all far fetched.

So far the series is grimly engaging, full of villains and scoundrels, and even fuller of surprises. For example, what is the source of the monies Strange keeps digging up?
... Tom Hardy's character is James Delaney, son of Horace Delaney whose death featured in the first episode. Sir Stuart Strange is the Chairman of the East India Company, played by Jonathan Pryce. Historically the HBC was already the de facto authority on "that island". But in the reality of Taboo it would appear that the EIC has supplanted the HBC, is in conflict with the US, Delaney is playing one against the other, with the British Crown involved as well, and for all appearances, the true value of Nootka Sound has yet to be revealed.

Not TOO far fetched, yet; the series is indeed compelling and grimly engaging, so far.
__________________
"I am Groot"
- Groot
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04 Feb 17, 15:50
Dibble201Bty's Avatar
Dibble201Bty Dibble201Bty is offline
General of the Forums
England
5 Year Service Ribbon Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft Greatest/Best Tank of WW2 Campaign 
 
Real Name: Paul B
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albans
Posts: 10,860
Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Dibble201Bty has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
What episodes of Taboo have you seen over there?

Poldark (the original series) was excellent and kept within the bounds of reality.

Paul
__________________
‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
All human ills he can subdue,
Or with a bauble or medal
Can win mans heart for you;
And many a blessing know to stew
To make a megloamaniac bright;
Give honour to the dainty Corse,
The Pixie is a little shite.

Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 04 Feb 17 at 16:03..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 00:25.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.