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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Colonial Era

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American Colonial Era 1660-1763 The growth of North American colonies, often with a change in native & national control.

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  #16  
Old 26 Jan 17, 16:25
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Better a Parish ...

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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
There is a Bienville Parish and an Iberville Parish in Louisiana.

Pruitt
... than a Seigneurie when it comes to posterity. Then again, I wonder how many people living in those Parishes know that they were named after Canadien born soldiers, rather than French?

Of the original Le Moyne Seigneuries, which all had river frontages of some sort, Châteauguay & Longueuil still exist and are part of Greater Metro Montreal. There was a Bienville, now part of Levis, across the St Lawrence from Quebec City. Iberville was on the Richelieu River, halfway to the US border from Montreal, it was merged into Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. This route was the traditional "warpath" leading between Quebec and Iroquoia the land of the Haudenosaunee.

There are two Sainte-Hélène's, one on the lower St. Lawrence where my male line ancestors set roots at about the same time. A Maricourt still exists but may not be on the original Seigneurie, a Serigny is no where near any.

Interestingly, Detroit was originally named "Fort Pontchartrain du Detroit" i.e. after French Navy/Colonial Minister Louis Phélypeaux, comte de Pontchartrain "on the straits" by Cadillac, who was a bit of a kiss-arse.
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  #17  
Old 26 Jan 17, 17:26
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... I've been through Syracuse many times over the years, but I've never heard of Le Moyne College?
I only know about 'cause my cousin studied there. Apparently it's a Jesuit school with a reputation for strong academics.

We know that Frenchmen and Qubecois penetrated northern and western New York State. There are no shortage of French place names all over the state. As a matter of fact my cousins last summer spent time in Frontenac, a location that played prominently in a James Fenimore Cooper novel.

You should come down to the Empire State sometime, and learn how Quebecois and their posterity live sud de la lignee.
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  #18  
Old 26 Jan 17, 19:51
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Oh, we have.

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Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
I only know about 'cause my cousin studied there. Apparently it's a Jesuit school with a reputation for strong academics.

We know that Frenchmen and Qubecois penetrated northern and western New York State. There are no shortage of French place names all over the state. As a matter of fact my cousins last summer spent time in Frontenac, a location that played prominently in a James Fenimore Cooper novel.

You should come down to the Empire State sometime, and learn how Quebecois and their posterity live sud de la lignee.
We've been to the Adirondacks many, many times, back when we took summer holidays. From down the Northway from Montreal avec les Quebecois, or east on the Thruway from Buffalo & north from Albany, and from Watertown through Fort Drum on the state highways ... to Lake Placid or Lake George. It's been awhile though, last time was 2008 for our 25th wedding anniversary; Lake George was let run down a fair bit, hope it's improved since then.

That whole area was a war zone during the 17th & 18th centuries. That said, some of those place names are actually due to Huguenot i.e. French Protestants influence. Unlike England where the more off-the-wall non-Church of England Protestants were encourage to migrate to their colonies, the French eventually decided that their own colonies should be left free of the problems associated with France's religious wars, their own Protestants weren't to be allowed to migrate to New France. A number of them emigrated to England, then to the American colonies, "Huguenot" itself is a place name in NY; dunno about "Frontenac" NY though.
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  #19  
Old 26 Jan 17, 23:51
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Peter Minuit -- who purchased Manhattan Island from the Lenne Lanapi for $24 -- was a Hugenot in the employ of the Dutch East India Company. Lots of Hugenots ended up in the Netherlands.

Frontenac is among the Thousand Islands, where the St Lawrence meets Lake Ontario.
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  #20  
Old 27 Jan 17, 14:24
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Sure, ...

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Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
Peter Minuit -- who purchased Manhattan Island from the Lenne Lanapi for $24 -- was a Hugenot in the employ of the Dutch East India Company. Lots of Hugenots ended up in the Netherlands.

Frontenac is among the Thousand Islands, where the St Lawrence meets Lake Ontario.
... the Huguenots scattered, German WWII Ace Adolf Galland was of Huguenot descent, the French Religious wars were especially nasty. King Henri IV and Samuel de Champlain were both born Protestant and converted to RC for the good of the nation; Champlain was said to be a bastard son of "Good King Henri". Initially RC was to have been the state religion of New France, but the people could practice whatever they wanted. A Protestant Priest was even included on one of Champlain's earliest colonizing expeditions, but all the "holy men" did was whine and argue, no more Protestants after that.

Frontenac NY was probably settled as part of New France/Canada, became US with the post-Revolution island divvying up settlement. What's left of Fort Frontenac is part of Kingston ON today, which is part of Frontenac County.
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  #21  
Old 27 Jan 17, 14:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... the Huguenots scattered, German WWII Ace Adolf Galland was of Huguenot descent
So was Herman von François, the true architect of the Germans' victory at Tannenberg in August 1914.

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Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
the French Religious wars were especially nasty.
Wasn't there a French king who barbecued 1,000 Protestants as a wedding gift to his bride?

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Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
A Protestant Priest was even included on one of Champlain's earliest colonizing expeditions, but all the "holy men" did was whine and argue, no more Protestants after that.
Yeah, Protestants are such ball-busters.

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Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
Frontenac NY was probably settled as part of New France/Canada, became US with the post-Revolution island divvying up settlement. What's left of Fort Frontenac is part of Kingston ON today, which is part of Frontenac County.
What is left of the fort these days?
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  #22  
Old 27 Jan 17, 18:09
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Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post


What is left of the fort these days?
Is the site of the Canadian Land Force Command and Staff College in Kingston, Ontario, Only bits and pieces of the original structure remain
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  #23  
Old 30 Jan 17, 12:47
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Quote:
Wasn't there a French king who barbecued 1,000 Protestants as a wedding gift to his bride?
Dunno, I'm not up on my French Wars of Religion. I do know that there were a number of massacres, the biggy was the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre in 1572, where thousands of Protestants were killed over several weeks. Some time later, Protestants had a measure of revenge forcing Catholics to jump from battlements into a raging fire below after a siege, but that's as close as I get to "barbecued".

Quote:
What is left of the fort these days?
To add to MarkV's post, Fort Frontenac was built by La Salle and also known to the French as Fort Cataraqui because it was located on the point of land on the west side of the Cataraqui River where it meets the St. Lawrence. The French wrecked it, Frontenac had it rebuilt, it later lost prominence with the building of Fort Niagara and Fort Detroit; the British took and destroyed it during the Seven Years War. After the US Revolution, the site regained some usefulness when UEL were settled in the area; the British built their own facilities on-site as Tête-de-Pont Barracks, which with other facilities/battlements in the area, later became the major British military & naval command centre in Upper Canada during War of 1812.

The area then became even more important when it was decided to build a canal from the Ottawa River to Lake Ontario, to circumvent the area of the St. Lawrence which abuts on the US northern border on it's south side. Its raison d'être was to preserve and protect communications with the Lower Great Lakes in the event of another war with the US, and became known as the Rideau Canal, it linked the Rideau River to the north on the Ottawa, with the Cataraqui River and the St. Lawrence. The British would build up the earlier fortifications on Point Henry to the east, and on Point Frederick, on the east side of the Cataraqui from Fort Frontenac/Tête-de-Pont Barracks; to be known as Forts Henry and Frederick, to protect the canal, harbour and dockyard.

Today? Fort Frederick is known as the site of the Royal Military College of Canada. Linked by bridge across the Cataraqui (simply known as "The Rideau") are the remains of old French Fort Frontenac, the Tête-de-Pont Barracks, renamed Fort Frontenac by the Canadian Army in 1939, housing Canadian Land Force Command and Staff College. Fort Henry is preserved as the Fort Henry National Historic Site, our fellow poster Massena was there for Canada Day last summer!


From Wiki, French Fort Frontenac remains, with British built Tête-de-Pont Barracks/Fort Frontenac in the background.

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Old 30 Jan 17, 13:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
Dunno, I'm not up on my French Wars of Religion. I do know that there were a number of massacres, the biggy was the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre in 1572, where thousands of Protestants were killed over several weeks. Some time later, Protestants had a measure of revenge forcing Catholics to jump from battlements into a raging fire below after a siege, but that's as close as I get to "barbecued".
Ahhh, the good old days. It's quite possible that I'd conflated two different events in my head, 'cause the closest I could come to what I'd described earlier is this:

Quote:
The king was highly and justly incensed, and ordered the imprisonment of all suspected persons. The prisons were soon filled. To purge the city from the defilement caused by this insult to the holy mass and the hierarchy, a most imposing procession was held from the Louvre to Notre Dame, on Jan. 29, 1535. The image of St. Geneviève, the patroness of Paris, was carried through the streets: the archbishop, with the host under a magnificent däis, and the king with his three sons, bare-headed, on foot, a burning taper in their hands, headed the procession, and were followed by the princes, cardinals, bishops, priests, ambassadors, and the great officers of the State and of the University, walking two and two abreast, in profound silence, with lighted torches. Solemn mass was performed in the cathedral. Then the king dined with the prelates and dignitaries, and declared that he would not hesitate to behead any one of his own children if found guilty of these new, accursed heresies, and to offer them as a sacrifice to divine justice.
The gorgeous solemnities of the day wound up with a horrible autodafé of six Protestants: they were suspended by a rope to a machine, let down into burning flames, again drawn up, and at last precipitated into the fire. They died like heroes. The more educated among them had their tongues slit. Twenty-four innocent Protestants were burned alive in public places of the city from Nov. 10, 1534, till May 5, 1535. Among them was Etienne de la Forge (Stephanus Forgeus), an intimate friend of Calvin. Many more were fined, imprisoned, and tortured, and a considerable number, among them Calvin and Du Tillet, fled to Strassburg.

LINK
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Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
To add to MarkV's post, Fort Frontenac was built by La Salle and also known to the French as Fort Cataraqui because it was located on the point of land on the west side of the Cataraqui River where it meets the St. Lawrence. The French wrecked it, Frontenac had it rebuilt, it later lost prominence with the building of Fort Niagara and Fort Detroit; the British took and destroyed it during the Seven Years War. After the US Revolution, the site regained some usefulness when UEL were settled in the area; the British built their own facilities on-site as Tête-de-Pont Barracks, which with other facilities/battlements in the area, later became the major British military & naval command centre in Upper Canada during War of 1812.

The area then became even more important when it was decided to build a canal from the Ottawa River to Lake Ontario, to circumvent the area of the St. Lawrence which abuts on the US northern border on it's south side. Its raison d'être was to preserve and protect communications with the Lower Great Lakes in the event of another war with the US, and became known as the Rideau Canal, it linked the Rideau River to the north on the Ottawa, with the Cataraqui River and the St. Lawrence. The British would build up the earlier fortifications on Point Henry to the east, and on Point Frederick, on the east side of the Cataraqui from Fort Frontenac/Tête-de-Pont Barracks; to be known as Forts Henry and Frederick, to protect the canal, harbour and dockyard.

Today? Fort Frederick is known as the site of the Royal Military College of Canada. Linked by bridge across the Cataraqui (simply known as "The Rideau") are the remains of old French Fort Frontenac, the Tête-de-Pont Barracks, renamed Fort Frontenac by the Canadian Army in 1939, housing Canadian Land Force Command and Staff College. Fort Henry is preserved as the Fort Henry National Historic Site, our fellow poster Massena was there for Canada Day last summer!


From Wiki, French Fort Frontenac remains, with British built Tête-de-Pont Barracks/Fort Frontenac in the background.

Bet it's buggy as hell in the summer.
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Old 31 Jan 17, 00:40
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Interesting stuff. I had always been aware of LaSalle......I lived close to that small town in Illinois named after him on the Illinois river. Never knew what happened to him personally......
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The phrase "Nous sommes tous sauvages" is usually interpreted to mean "We are all savages". There would be few who would disagree that the word "savage" is roughly defined as "fierce, violent, and uncontrolled; a member of a people regarded as primitive and uncivilized." but this is a modern literal translation, it's not what was originally intended.

In 17th century Old French & New English, "sauvage", sometimes written "salvage", derived from the Latin word "silva", which meant "forest or woodland". The early French in the Americas, using the word "sauvage" were simply referring to "forest dwellers", modern day "savage" didn't apply. The inscription found on the Fort Crèvecoeur unfinished boat should be viewed in that light; the inhabitants ran off into the woods, probably of their own accord.

However, "fierce, violent, and uncontrolled; ...people regarded as primitive and uncivilized." is how most Europeans came to view 'les sauvages,' which in turn led to the modern meaning.


'Nous somme tous sauvages'- I always read as 'We've taken to the woods' or perhaps, in a different idiom, "We've all gone native.'

With a hint of - "F*** you."
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Old 02 Feb 17, 11:44
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However, "fierce, violent, and uncontrolled; ...people regarded as primitive and uncivilized." is how most Europeans came to view 'les sauvages,' which in turn led to the modern meaning.


'Nous somme tous sauvages'- I always read as 'We've taken to the woods' or perhaps, in a different idiom, "We've all gone native.'

With a hint of - "F*** you."
From what I was told Sauvage meant a son of nature as in a part of the natural world the earth, water, trees and sky in French.
Savage meant a warrior of Satan in English or unbeliever an Infidel of sorts but both infer some kind of untamed reference.
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Old 02 Feb 17, 11:51
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Dunno, I'm not up on my French Wars of Religion. I do know that there were a number of massacres, the biggy was the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre in 1572, where thousands of Protestants were killed over several weeks. Some time later, Protestants had a measure of revenge forcing Catholics to jump from battlements into a raging fire below after a siege, but that's as close as I get to "barbecued".



To add to MarkV's post, Fort Frontenac was built by La Salle and also known to the French as Fort Cataraqui because it was located on the point of land on the west side of the Cataraqui River where it meets the St. Lawrence. The French wrecked it, Frontenac had it rebuilt, it later lost prominence with the building of Fort Niagara and Fort Detroit; the British took and destroyed it during the Seven Years War. After the US Revolution, the site regained some usefulness when UEL were settled in the area; the British built their own facilities on-site as Tête-de-Pont Barracks, which with other facilities/battlements in the area, later became the major British military & naval command centre in Upper Canada during War of 1812.

The area then became even more important when it was decided to build a canal from the Ottawa River to Lake Ontario, to circumvent the area of the St. Lawrence which abuts on the US northern border on it's south side. Its raison d'être was to preserve and protect communications with the Lower Great Lakes in the event of another war with the US, and became known as the Rideau Canal, it linked the Rideau River to the north on the Ottawa, with the Cataraqui River and the St. Lawrence. The British would build up the earlier fortifications on Point Henry to the east, and on Point Frederick, on the east side of the Cataraqui from Fort Frontenac/Tête-de-Pont Barracks; to be known as Forts Henry and Frederick, to protect the canal, harbour and dockyard.

Today? Fort Frederick is known as the site of the Royal Military College of Canada. Linked by bridge across the Cataraqui (simply known as "The Rideau") are the remains of old French Fort Frontenac, the Tête-de-Pont Barracks, renamed Fort Frontenac by the Canadian Army in 1939, housing Canadian Land Force Command and Staff College. Fort Henry is preserved as the Fort Henry National Historic Site, our fellow poster Massena was there for Canada Day last summer!


From Wiki, French Fort Frontenac remains, with British built Tête-de-Pont Barracks/Fort Frontenac in the background.

Thanks for posting Fort Frontenac, Kingston, Ontario is as far east as I've ever been.
I've been meaning to read more about Frontenac, LaSalle, Tonti, & his cousin Daniel Duluth to find out more about his travels.

I'll post a thread on Daniel Duluth...

Regard's Patrick
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Old 08 Feb 17, 17:23
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My old friend Reid Lewis, did a re-enactment of lasalle expedition in 1976 for the bicentenary of independance called Lasalle II, from Montreal to gulf of Mexico




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Old 08 Feb 17, 17:27
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Please find below the link of expedition


http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/...-told-new-book
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à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire (triumph without peril brings no glory) P. Corneille

Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
(The problem with Pr.cks, is that they never get tired ) Michel Audiard
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