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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Colonial Era

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American Colonial Era 1660-1763 The growth of North American colonies, often with a change in native & national control.

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  #1  
Old 21 Jan 17, 12:17
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Texas History

Texas Beyond History La Belle Ship Wreck 1687....
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/belle

I came across this in Birch Bark Brigade: A Fur Trade History by Chris Peterson on page 56.
This ship wreck offers a unique window in time and a capsule of early French Colonization materials needed in the New World Soft Gold (Fur) Economy.
A cofferdam was constructed and the entire ship was excavated at a cost of $2 million.
Other reading on the pop up window on the above link includes: From A Watery Grave: The Discovery & Excavation of La Salle's Ship Wreak La Belle...

Regard's Patrick
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Old 21 Jan 17, 13:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmackUm View Post
Texas Beyond History La Belle Ship Wreck 1687....
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/belle

I came across this in Birch Bark Brigade: A Fur Trade History by Chris Peterson on page 56.
This ship wreck offers a unique window in time and a capsule of early French Colonization materials needed in the New World Soft Gold (Fur) Economy.
A cofferdam was constructed and the entire ship was excavated at a cost of $2 million.
Other reading on the pop up window on the above link includes: From A Watery Grave: The Discovery & Excavation of La Salle's Ship Wreak La Belle...

Regard's Patrick
I remember reading about de La Salle in my childhood in an old Victorian history of Canada at my grandparents. I didn't know of his ventures further south. If memory serves in Canada he had an assistant named Tonto (long before the Lone Ranger) who had lost a hand and had it replaced with a metal one which made him a personage of awe and dread to the locals
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Old 21 Jan 17, 13:59
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Tonti, ...

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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
I remember reading about de La Salle in my childhood in an old Victorian history of Canada at my grandparents. I didn't know of his ventures further south. If memory serves in Canada he had an assistant named Tonto (long before the Lone Ranger) who had lost a hand and had it replaced with a metal one which made him a personage of awe and dread to the locals
... as in Henri de Tonti, not "Tonto". Tonti was actually Italian, he would go on to serve the Canadien Le Moyne family, who actually established the "Louisiana" Colony, not by starting off in modern day Texas.
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Old 22 Jan 17, 06:57
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Fascinating. The French phase of first contact and exploration is stirring stuff. On the shoulders of giants.
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Old 22 Jan 17, 12:38
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Fascinating. The French phase of first contact and exploration is stirring stuff. On the shoulders of giants.
Finding an entire ship intact with a French Phase Colonization Kit is quite remarkable.
La Salle's Le Griffon is the Holly Grail of Great Lakes Ship Hunters built in New York State just above Niagara Falls.
La Salle's ship Le Griffon disappeared in 1679 on it's return voyage from Lake Michigan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Griffon
http://www.shipwreckworld.com/articl...of-the-griffon
I pull up this book as well... The Wreak of The Griffon (The Greatest Mystery of the Great Lakes) by Cris Kohl & Jean Forsberg

In my neck of the woods there remains the possibility of French Regime Ship Wreaks by Grand Portage, Minnesota & Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Both places are often referred to as the Lake Head in early French Regime Fur Trading maps due to Lake Superiors being shaped like the head of a wolf.

Regard's Patrick

Last edited by SmackUm; 22 Jan 17 at 12:58.. Reason: repair link
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Old 22 Jan 17, 20:23
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Didn't Tête du Lac refer to the end of open water navigation and the start of inland navigation towards Lake of the Woods?
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Old 23 Jan 17, 10:55
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Didn't Tête du Lac refer to the end of open water navigation and the start of inland navigation towards Lake of the Woods?
I'm probably not the best one to answer that as I speak English only... I pull up Head of the Lake as a meaning for it.
The first shipyard on Lake Superior was Point Aux Pins in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario 1735 I believe Louis Denis Sieur de la Ronde built it to exploite copper mines @ Isle Royale near Grand Portage, Minnesota.
The Fur Trading Charter for the Lake Superior Region was given to Daniel Greysolon, Sieur du Lhut he built Fort Caministigoyan in 1683.
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/greys...daniel_2E.html
One of the principal architects of the alliance between New France & the Lake Superior Tribes.
I could not see him doing what La Salle did taking the King's ships to Corpus Christi, Texas in the hopes of capturing the Spanish Silver Mines.
I believe that La Salle was a bit of a hot head and a risk taker who knows maybe Le Griffon was over loaded beyond the LL (Lloyds of London Mark) if such a thing existed in New France Shipping.
It's like looking at two different NFL teams one Pure Offence (Go Long) the other Defence & Run Plays.
People are different and do not react the same when on their own and nobody is watching... What the King of France doesn't know won't hurt him must have been La Salle's take on the situation.
What did happen was not all of La Salle's men were willing to follow him to the grave and they murdered him Duluth on the other hand died in bed in Montreal.
This is my take on what I've read La Salle would have been at not getting the land beyond Superior Fur Charter from the King.

Regard's Patrick

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Old 24 Jan 17, 07:50
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"Nous sommes tous sauvages"

Probably my favourite quotation from the Exploration period, inscribed in the side of an upturned boat at Fort Crèvecoeur, La Salle's post on the Illinois, found by Tonti deserted and its personnel vanished in April 1680.
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Old 24 Jan 17, 12:02
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Misinterpretation,

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Originally Posted by jf42 View Post
"Nous sommes tous sauvages"

Probably my favourite quotation from the Exploration period, inscribed in the side of an upturned boat at Fort Crèvecoeur, La Salle's post on the Illinois, found by Tonti deserted and its personnel vanished in April 1680.

The phrase "Nous sommes tous sauvages" is usually interpreted to mean "We are all savages". There would be few who would disagree that the word "savage" is roughly defined as "fierce, violent, and uncontrolled; a member of a people regarded as primitive and uncivilized." but this is a modern literal translation, it's not what was originally intended.

In 17th century Old French & New English, "sauvage", sometimes written "salvage", derived from the Latin word "silva", which meant "forest or woodland". The early French in the Americas, using the word "sauvage" were simply referring to "forest dwellers", modern day "savage" didn't apply. The inscription found on the Fort Crèvecoeur unfinished boat should be viewed in that light; the inhabitants ran off into the woods, probably of their own accord.
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Old 24 Jan 17, 12:47
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The French Trappers referred to themselves as Couers d'bois (Forgive my spelling). This roughly means "Runners of the Woods".

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Old 24 Jan 17, 13:02
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Old 25 Jan 17, 10:21
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Not trappers ...

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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The French Trappers referred to themselves as Couers d'bois (Forgive my spelling). This roughly means "Runners of the Woods".

Pruitt
... there were few to none French/Canadien "trapping" in the woods, the coureurs de bois were illegal independent "traders", outlaws in effect, some notables were prosecuted. Trapping beaver in the period was extremely difficult, the people of the First Nations did the trapping, the French et. al. traded goods for the pelts. The Cree have been called the best trappers on the planet, other tribes vied and fought wars to be the official middlemen.

The short version is First Nations people and European fishermen were drawn to trade in the 16th century. With the end of serious religious warfare around the end of the century, King Henri IV of France sponsored exploration of the area, a more permanent settlement, to be paid for by groups/companies of investors who were given exclusive license to trade for fur etc. with the locals. The process would evolve, but essentially coureurs de bois circumvented the process, took trade goods out to the First Nation fur producers i.e. Cree et. al., wandered over much of the continent looking for better sources of fur etc., all without licence or authority to do so. Voyageurs did much the same thing, but under contract or in the employ of legit traders in authority.
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Old 25 Jan 17, 13:20
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... as in Henri de Tonti, not "Tonto". Tonti was actually Italian, he would go on to serve the Canadien Le Moyne family, who actually established the "Louisiana" Colony, not by starting off in modern day Texas.
"Canadien Le Moyne family": might they be the namesakes for Syracuse's Le Moyne College?
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Old 25 Jan 17, 20:20
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I had to look this one up ...

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Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
"Canadien Le Moyne family": might they be the namesakes for Syracuse's Le Moyne College?
... I've been through Syracuse many times over the years, but I've never heard of Le Moyne College?

It turns out Le Moyne is an RC school like Duquesne, named after a Jesuit Priest by the name of Father Simon Le Moyne, S.J. (22 October 1604 – 24 November 1665) from Beauvais France, who went to a seminary in Rouen, Normandie. I'm not familiar with him, but from what I've just read, he sounds like quite the guy.

The Patriarch of the Canadien Le Moynes was Charles le Moyne (August 2, 1626 – February 1685) from Dieppe, Normandie. Beauvais is approx 60 miles away, midway to Paris. Related? Could be, but I haven't found it anywhere.

Charles le Moyne was successful in Canada and was elevated to the Canadien aristocracy by land grant as Sieur (which translates to Lord) "Charles le Moyne de Longueuil et de Châteauguay", the sons, born in Canada were elevated as follows:

From wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...%C3%A2teauguay

During his career, he received awards and honors involving money and land grants. He had two seigneurial titles conferred on him along with additional lands; in 1672 Governor Louis de Buade de Frontenac and Intendant of New France, Jean Talon confirmed the seigneury title of Longueuil. The following year Frontenac granted him a seigneury at Châteauguay. His eldest son, Charles, was given the Longueuil fief in 1684.

He had two daughters and twelve sons, almost all of them achieved some level of fame; the most famous ones being Pierre Le Moyne d'Iberville, founder of Louisiana with Biloxi (Mississippi) and Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne, Sieur de Bienville, co-founder of Mobile and later founder of New Orleans.

The other sons of Charles Le Moyne, included:

- Charles le Moyne de Longueuil, Baron de Longueuil [junior] (10 December 1656 - 1729)
- Paul Le Moyne, Sieur de Maricourt (15 December 1663 - 21 March 1704)
- François Le Moyne, Sieur de Bienville I (1666–1691)
- Joseph Le Moyne, Sieur de Serigny (22 July 1668 - 1704/France)
- Jacques le Moyne de Sainte-Hélène (16 April 1669 - 1690), led the 'Schenectady massacre'
- Louis Le Moyne, Sieur de Châteauguay I (4 January 1676 - 1694)
- Antoine Le Moyne, Sieur de Châteauguay II (b. 1683), became governor of French Guiana.

The illustrious d'Iberville had an amazing career, he was everywhere, you can't make this stuff up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre..._d%27Iberville


And then there were the La Vérendryes, they made it to the Rockies in the 1740's ...
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Old 25 Jan 17, 23:13
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There is a Bienville Parish and an Iberville Parish in Louisiana.

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