HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War

Notices and Announcements

Weapons of War The machinery of warfare. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17 Dec 16, 13:08
GCoyote's Avatar
GCoyote GCoyote is offline
ACG Forums - canis administrationem
United_States
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Westerns Campaign 
Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Gary C
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Posts: 19,109
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+] GCoyote has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle (AMPV)

Quote:
YORK, Penn. BAE Systems rolled out its first general purpose variant of the Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle (AMPV) prototype for the US Army Thursday in a ceremony at its facility in York, Pennsylvania, just two years after being awarded the contract to build 29 vehicles in five variants.
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...ype-to-us-army
__________________
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

Questions about our site? See the FAQ.
Reply With Quote
Facebook Connect and Magazine Promotions

World War II Magazine
$26.95

Armchair General Magazine
$26.95
Military History Magazine
$26.95
  #2  
Old 22 Dec 16, 21:03
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,363
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
wow...where have I been? I thought they used the Bradley? some versions hold a squad? but M2 not amphibious....they are still using 113s?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22 Dec 16, 21:25
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is online now
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,451
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Many soldiers were being carried by other vehicles before the Bradley started joining the Army. For instance Engineers had to ride in the back of their Dump Trucks. As the Bradley was bought in greater numbers the M-113 was used for more roles. They had already used M-113 variants for Fire Support Vehicles and CP's.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't see a crying need for Ambulances keeping up with Abrams and Bradleys. Is it really necessary to replace the Engineer's M-113's? I remember when the M-113 was converted into Tank Destroyers with the addition of TOW Launchers. They were not in the inventory long, but the Turret on the vehicle in the article reminded me of them.

I think it is a good idea to remove the turret off a Bradley and use it for many of the roles performed by the old M-113.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22 Dec 16, 21:43
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,363
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
M113 old technology...even though they've been upgraded...
o, my bad--I thought the AMPV would be amphibious, but no--correct?
the AMPV is much faster, better survivability? I can't find the specs
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22 Dec 16, 23:09
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is online now
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 27,451
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
According to the AMPV wiki site, the following M-113 derivatives are to be replaced: APC- includes Logistic Package Escort; Medical Evac Vehicle; Medical Treatment Vehicle; Mortar Carrier (120 mentioned, but not 81); Command Post Carrier. No mention of any to replace Engineer Vehicles.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24 Dec 16, 19:39
82redleg's Avatar
82redleg 82redleg is offline
Sergeant Major
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fort Living Room
Posts: 312
82redleg is on the path to success [1-99] 82redleg is on the path to success [1-99] 82redleg is on the path to success [1-99] 82redleg is on the path to success [1-99] 82redleg is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
According to the AMPV wiki site, the following M-113 derivatives are to be replaced: APC- includes Logistic Package Escort; Medical Evac Vehicle; Medical Treatment Vehicle; Mortar Carrier (120 mentioned, but not 81); Command Post Carrier. No mention of any to replace Engineer Vehicles.

Pruitt

Engineer squads in the Armored Brigade Combat Teams fielded Bradleys to replace M113 a few years ago. I'm not sure if it is a specialized variant or simply a M2 IFV.

Heavy units (mech infantry and armor) had 4.2" mortars to replace 81mm a long time ago- definitely by the mid-90s, although some tracked 81mm carriers (M125?) may have hung around in the National Guard. The 4.2" mortars were replaced by 120mms, I'm not sure when, and I don't know if they replaced the carriers or just the tubes in them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25 Dec 16, 03:07
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is online now
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,804
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Many soldiers were being carried by other vehicles before the Bradley started joining the Army. For instance Engineers had to ride in the back of their Dump Trucks. As the Bradley was bought in greater numbers the M-113 was used for more roles. They had already used M-113 variants for Fire Support Vehicles and CP's.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't see a crying need for Ambulances keeping up with Abrams and Bradleys. Is it really necessary to replace the Engineer's M-113's? I remember when the M-113 was converted into Tank Destroyers with the addition of TOW Launchers. They were not in the inventory long, but the Turret on the vehicle in the article reminded me of them.

I think it is a good idea to remove the turret off a Bradley and use it for many of the roles performed by the old M-113.

Pruitt
I think they're trying to streamline the parts and training systems by common engine and powertrain systems.

Plus the M113 fleet has to be shrinking fast; IIRC the last ones were built in the 80s.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 25 Dec 16, 12:29
Mountain Man's Avatar
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Greatest Spy Movies Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II 
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Rocky Mts, USA
Posts: 69,401
Mountain Man has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
Many soldiers were being carried by other vehicles before the Bradley started joining the Army. For instance Engineers had to ride in the back of their Dump Trucks. As the Bradley was bought in greater numbers the M-113 was used for more roles. They had already used M-113 variants for Fire Support Vehicles and CP's.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't see a crying need for Ambulances keeping up with Abrams and Bradleys. Is it really necessary to replace the Engineer's M-113's? I remember when the M-113 was converted into Tank Destroyers with the addition of TOW Launchers. They were not in the inventory long, but the Turret on the vehicle in the article reminded me of them.

I think it is a good idea to remove the turret off a Bradley and use it for many of the roles performed by the old M-113.

Pruitt
FYI - the CP/BAS version is officially designated the M577:







One of these, which I named Medicine Man, was my home in the field and my Battalion Aid Station for many years.
__________________
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 31 Jan 17, 04:08
Merkava188's Avatar
Merkava188 Merkava188 is offline
Major
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
Tournament 1 and preceding Mini-Polls 
 
Real Name: Doug Williams
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sierra Vista
Posts: 1,010
Merkava188 is on the path to success [1-99] Merkava188 is on the path to success [1-99] Merkava188 is on the path to success [1-99]
The Army should've gone with the tracked Stryker. First a tracked Stryker has at least 80% commonality with the wheeled Stryker which you can still use the same production line in Lima Ohio. Second the Stryker has better production with its double v shaped hull. Third it can carry 9 soldiers compared to 6 in a Bradley. Last with the upgrades in armament most notably the 30mm cannon a tracked Stryker could become a template for Bradley replacement vehicle. I feel it's something to consider.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 31 Jan 17, 08:24
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,363
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkava188 View Post
The Army should've gone with the tracked Stryker. First a tracked Stryker has at least 80% commonality with the wheeled Stryker which you can still use the same production line in Lima Ohio. Second the Stryker has better production with its double v shaped hull. Third it can carry 9 soldiers compared to 6 in a Bradley. Last with the upgrades in armament most notably the 30mm cannon a tracked Stryker could become a template for Bradley replacement vehicle. I feel it's something to consider.
I see it's named after some real life Strykers--same name as John Wayne's character in Sands of Iwo Jima

they do use it though, yes? wheeled? why didn't they use a tracked version?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 31 Jan 17, 08:58
Bluenose's Avatar
Bluenose Bluenose is offline
Major General
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Warwick
Posts: 2,668
Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
they do use it though, yes? wheeled? why didn't they use a tracked version?
Tracked vehicles tend to be optimied for a slightly heavier role, so a tracked Stryker would have been something of a half-way house. Clear benefits of reducing variety of platform types but likely lower protection and doubts about ability to keep up with Abrams is probably what barred it from the true IFV consideration.
__________________
History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

Pierre Vidal-Naquet
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 31 Jan 17, 10:38
johns624's Avatar
johns624 johns624 is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Detroit
Posts: 9,512
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000] johns624 has set a fine example for others to follow [1000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkava188 View Post
Third it can carry 9 soldiers compared to 6 in a Bradley. Last with the upgrades in armament most notably the 30mm cannon a tracked Stryker could become a template for Bradley replacement vehicle. I feel it's something to consider.
No. When you add the turret for the Bushmaster, you lose the space for 2-3 dismounts.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01 Feb 17, 03:23
Achtung Baby's Avatar
Achtung Baby Achtung Baby is offline
General of the Forums
Armchair_General
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon Summer Campaign 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Spy Movies Campaign 
Greatest Blunders Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C Tournament 1 of the ACG 2017-2018 SPQR Campaign Model Forum Group Build Victor 
Model Forum Group Build (Multiple - Ace) 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 15,214
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Achtung Baby has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
I see it's named after some real life Strykers--same name as John Wayne's character in Sands of Iwo Jima

they do use it though, yes? wheeled? why didn't they use a tracked version?
With improved wheel and drivetrain gear(inline drive etc), wheeled vehicles can match and even sometimes succeed tracked vehicles because of higher ground clearance. The MCCDC Amphibious Combat Vehicle Program required the ACV wheeled vehicle to be able to drive for 5 miles with a wheel blown off, the ACV drove more than 100 miles, so they figured that was enough.
__________________
"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway.

First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure. - Mark Twain.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01 Feb 17, 08:03
Moulin's Avatar
Moulin Moulin is offline
Brigadier General
United_States
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Monroe
Posts: 2,363
Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99] Moulin is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achtung Baby View Post
With improved wheel and drivetrain gear(inline drive etc), wheeled vehicles can match and even sometimes succeed tracked vehicles because of higher ground clearance. The MCCDC Amphibious Combat Vehicle Program required the ACV wheeled vehicle to be able to drive for 5 miles with a wheel blown off, the ACV drove more than 100 miles, so they figured that was enough.
thanks for replies....great info
I would think wheeled would be used more
the majority of battles/conflicts are in urban/road areas/built up/ ...yes?
...not counting Persian Gulf 1, are/were wheeled vehicles used more?
these wheeled vehicles are ''all-terrain''...they can go a lot of places other than roads--correct?
..I used to ride in amtracs in the USMC....they would get you there, but were kind of ''clumsy''
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01 Feb 17, 11:11
Bluenose's Avatar
Bluenose Bluenose is offline
Major General
UK
ACG 5 Year Service Ribbon 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Warwick
Posts: 2,668
Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200] Bluenose is walking in the light [200]
Quote:
With improved wheel and drivetrain gear(inline drive etc), wheeled vehicles can match and even sometimes succeed tracked vehicles because of higher ground clearance.
But often at the cost of higher ground pressure. There are some embarrassing photos of Canadian 8x8 getting stuck in Afghanistan...
__________________
History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

Pierre Vidal-Naquet
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 21:54.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.