HistoryNet.com RSS
ArmchairGeneral.com RSS

HistoryNet.com Articles
America's Civil War
American History
Aviation History
Civil War Times
MHQ
Military History
Vietnam
Wild West
World War II

ACG Online
ACG Magazine
Stuff We Like
War College
History News
Tactics 101
Carlo D'Este
Books

ACG Gaming
Boardgames
PC Game Reviews

ACG Network
Contact Us
Our Newsletter
Meet Our Staff
Advertise With Us

Sites We Support
HistoryNet.com
StreamHistory.com
Once A Marine
The Art of Battle
Game Squad
Mil. History Podcast
Russian Army - WW2
Achtung Panzer!
Mil History Online

Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > East Asia and the Pacific

Notices and Announcements

East Asia and the Pacific China - Japan - Australia and challenges throughout East Asia.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 23 Jan 17, 22:27
Arnold J Rimmer's Avatar
Arnold J Rimmer Arnold J Rimmer is offline
General of the Forums
United_States
Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Red Dwarf
Posts: 21,076
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Arnold J Rimmer has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bart dale View Post
While US Policy should not be dictated by China's wants, neither should we go out of the way to antagonize China either. The reality is, that what ever China thinks, Taiwan is really an independent country, and should be treated as such. It is shameful the way we treat Taiwan, simply because we are worried about upsetting the (mainland) Chinese. Taiwan was never under mainland China's rule, and it wasn't always part of China either. If the people of Taiwan don't wish to be part of China anymore, and have given up the fiction that they represent all of China, then it is time we treat them as the independent country they really are, and tell China to take a hike.

However, being one of things he did after being elected seems to be unnecessarily antagonizing the Chinese. It seems to me he could have talked to a lot of other countries leaders first, before the Taiwanese one, it seems a kind of in your face move, and there just isn't the need for such a provocative action. It is not Trump's action I question, merely the timing.

I know China regards Taiwan as part of China, but at one time, so were Vietnam - should we say it is ok to for the Chinese to take over Vietnam too, simply because at one time it ruled it? We already allowed them to take over Tibet, and did nothing about it. We do need to let China know that taking over Taiwan by force is not an option - if they want Taiwan to join with China, they need to convince the Taiwanese to do so voluntarily. Who knows, maybe the Taiwanese will decide that it is in their interest to join China, there could be economic benefits.
I disagree. We need to rattle China periodically. Their primitive culture puts emphasis on appearance over substance. If we treat them with kid gloves it will only encourage them.

They need to be reminded periodically that they are a second-rate power hemmed in by enemies.
__________________
Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 23 Jan 17, 22:34
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,979
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
There are actually darn few native Taiwanese. The island was swamped by millions of Chinese refugees fleeing the Communists. The Republic of China took possession after the Japanese surrendered.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 24 Jan 17, 00:40
bart dale's Avatar
bart dale bart dale is offline
Sergeant
United_States
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Detroit
Posts: 124
bart dale is on the path to success [1-99] bart dale is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
There are actually darn few native Taiwanese. The island was swamped by millions of Chinese refugees fleeing the Communists. The Republic of China took possession after the Japanese surrendered.

Pruitt
US was settled by people from Britain. Simply because at one time its citizens were British, and Britain ruled Americs, doesn't mean it should forever be part of Britain. Same goes for Taiwan. Taiwan is a prosperous, developed country, yet has no official UN presence because of pressure from China. It is time to officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation if its citizens are willing to give up the fiction of being the sole government of China, and not knuckle under to Chinese pressure.

It is past time to treat Tawian as an independent nation, and if the Chinese Communist government doesn't like it, tough. The Communist never controlled Taiwan, and simply because at one time China ruled it, and it was settled by Chinese, doesn't mean it should belong to mainland China automatically.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 24 Jan 17, 14:00
GMan88's Avatar
GMan88 GMan88 is offline
General of the Forums
Philippines
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manila
Posts: 7,743
GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bart dale View Post
While US Policy should not be dictated by China's wants, neither should we go out of the way to antagonize China either. The reality is, that what ever China thinks, Taiwan is really an independent country, and should be treated as such. It is shameful the way we treat Taiwan, simply because we are worried about upsetting the (mainland) Chinese. Taiwan was never under mainland China's rule, and it wasn't always part of China either. If the people of Taiwan don't wish to be part of China anymore, and have given up the fiction that they represent all of China, then it is time we treat them as the independent country they really are, and tell China to take a hike.

However, being one of things he did after being elected seems to be unnecessarily antagonizing the Chinese. It seems to me he could have talked to a lot of other countries leaders first, before the Taiwanese one, it seems a kind of in your face move, and there just isn't the need for such a provocative action. It is not Trump's action I question, merely the timing.

I know China regards Taiwan as part of China, but at one time, so was Vietnam - should we say it is ok to for the Chinese to take over Vietnam too, simply because at one time it ruled it? We already allowed them to take over Tibet, and did nothing about it. We do need to let China know that taking over Taiwan by force is not an option - if they want Taiwan to join with China, they need to convince the Taiwanese to do so voluntarily. Who knows, maybe the Taiwanese will decide that it is in their interest to join China, there could be economic benefits.
How long ago was Vietnam a part of China, and is there anyone in China or Vietnam claiming each other as one country? I don't see your comparison.

Tibet has been a part of China longer than the US has been independent. What do you mean you "allowed them to take over Tibet"?

Hasn't Taiwan always been part of China?
__________________
"We have no white flag."
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 24 Jan 17, 15:53
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,979
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
No Gil, Tibet has been independent for most of its history. It has been CLAIMED by China for a while now. It was overran by the PLA after they drove the Nationalists to Taiwan. A lot of Tibetans died protecting the Dalai Lama's flight to India.

Many of China's extraterritorial claims are based back to when the Emperor of China received tribute from them. Several places include Siam, the Sultanate of Sulu, the Sutanate of Brunei and the area around what is now Manila. What was referred to as Tonkin was conquered by Chinese troops sent by Kublai Khan. The Vietnamese were successful in driving them out. The Chinese also invaded Vietnam recently and imposed changes in the border between the two countries.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 24 Jan 17, 16:47
GMan88's Avatar
GMan88 GMan88 is offline
General of the Forums
Philippines
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manila
Posts: 7,743
GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
No Gil, Tibet has been independent for most of its history. It has been CLAIMED by China for a while now. It was overran by the PLA after they drove the Nationalists to Taiwan. A lot of Tibetans died protecting the Dalai Lama's flight to India.

Many of China's extraterritorial claims are based back to when the Emperor of China received tribute from them. Several places include Siam, the Sultanate of Sulu, the Sutanate of Brunei and the area around what is now Manila. What was referred to as Tonkin was conquered by Chinese troops sent by Kublai Khan. The Vietnamese were successful in driving them out. The Chinese also invaded Vietnam recently and imposed changes in the border between the two countries.

Pruitt
What? From a book I've read, even the selection of the dalai and panchen lama had to have the Chinese emperor's approval.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist...2%80%93present)

Quote:
The*history of Tibet from 1950 to the presentstarted with the Chinese*People's Liberation Army*invading Tibet*in 195051. Before then,Tibet*had declared independence from China since 1913.
This means, before 1913 they were part of China, and that they were independent all of 1913 to 1951.
__________________
"We have no white flag."
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 24 Jan 17, 17:21
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,979
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
The Chinese have not always controlled Sinkiang, Tibet, Manchuria and Mongolia. Some Emperors exerted control and some were easily distracted. When the Nguyens revolted and overthrew Chinese control the new regime sent envoys to Peking begging for forgiveness for the revolt and to please continue trade! They did not let Chinese troops back in, though.

The Russian Far Eastern Provinces and parts of Siberia were also once part of China. Sikkim, Bhutan and Nepal were also once tributary states. The Chinese believe that once you were part of China, you are always part of the heavenly Kingdom.

The guy who started this thread is from Taiwan. His Grandfather was in the Nationalist Army and brought the family over with the exodus.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 24 Jan 17, 19:46
GMan88's Avatar
GMan88 GMan88 is offline
General of the Forums
Philippines
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manila
Posts: 7,743
GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
The Chinese have not always controlled Sinkiang, Tibet, Manchuria and Mongolia. Some Emperors exerted control and some were easily distracted. When the Nguyens revolted and overthrew Chinese control the new regime sent envoys to Peking begging for forgiveness for the revolt and to please continue trade! They did not let Chinese troops back in, though.

The Russian Far Eastern Provinces and parts of Siberia were also once part of China. Sikkim, Bhutan and Nepal were also once tributary states. The Chinese believe that once you were part of China, you are always part of the heavenly Kingdom.

The guy who started this thread is from Taiwan. His Grandfather was in the Nationalist Army and brought the family over with the exodus.

Pruitt
IIRC, China has Tibet from 12th century onwards? The only time I'm aware that Tibet became free was 1913 with the help (?) of Britain who wanted a buffer zone with their own empire. And it was MacMahon who made the boundary between China and India, which now results in their boundary dispute.
__________________
"We have no white flag."
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 24 Jan 17, 19:55
bart dale's Avatar
bart dale bart dale is offline
Sergeant
United_States
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Detroit
Posts: 124
bart dale is on the path to success [1-99] bart dale is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
How long ago was Vietnam a part of China, and is there anyone in China or Vietnam claiming each other as one country? I don't see your comparison.

Tibet has been a part of China longer than the US has been independent. What do you mean you "allowed them to take over Tibet"?

Hasn't Taiwan always been part of China?
Portugal ruled Macau far longet than China ruled Tibet, therefore by that logic they should keep ?

No, Taiwan was not always part of China, and originally, its people were not Chinese. China only ruled Taiwan since the end of Ming dynasty. At one time it was under Dutch control and Japanese.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 24 Jan 17, 20:00
bart dale's Avatar
bart dale bart dale is offline
Sergeant
United_States
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Detroit
Posts: 124
bart dale is on the path to success [1-99] bart dale is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
IIRC, China has Tibet from 12th century onwards? The only time I'm aware that Tibet became free was 1913 with the help (?) of Britain who wanted a buffer zone with their own empire. And it was MacMahon who made the boundary between China and India, which now results in their boundary dispute.
Tibet was conquered by the Mongols only in the 13th century, and with the collapse of the Yuan dynasty it was pretty much free until it was conquered by the Qing in 1720. Chinese rule was around 270, a little more if you count the Mongols, but still less than the Portugal ruled Macau.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #41  
Old 24 Jan 17, 20:24
Pruitt's Avatar
Pruitt Pruitt is offline
ACG Forums - General Staff
France
Distinguished Service Award ACG Ten Year Service Award 5 Year Service Ribbon March Offensive 
100 Greatest Generals, 2008 Most Decisive Battle Campaign, 2008 Greatest Westerns Campaign Greatest Blunders Campaign 
Summer Campaign Best Pin-Up Of World War II Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign 
Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role Aircraft C 
 
Real Name: Richard Pruitt
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sulphur, LA
Posts: 26,979
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Pruitt has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
McMahon's team marked the border between Tibet and India where they thought it should be. A number of times they moved the official boundary stone farther in! Who was going to make them put it back? In the Indo-Chinese War, the Chinese overran and occupied the areas that they claimed belonged to them. They have since offered to negotiate, but the Indians insist on China giving the disputed areas back first. One advantage the Chinese had was they built roads on their side of the border to these regions. The Indians have failed to build roads on their side. To be fair, I think the rain shadow is on the Indian side of the border and Monsoon Rains will probably wash the roads out. Roads allow supply and troop movement to the border posts.

Anytime you see an interesting history like the one you quoted, check and see who wrote it. Also, anyone can post an article on wiki and anyone can come behind and change it.

Pruitt
__________________
Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 25 Jan 17, 01:40
GMan88's Avatar
GMan88 GMan88 is offline
General of the Forums
Philippines
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manila
Posts: 7,743
GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bart dale View Post
Portugal ruled Macau far longet than China ruled Tibet, therefore by that logic they should keep ?

No, Taiwan was not always part of China, and originally, its people were not Chinese. China only ruled Taiwan since the end of Ming dynasty. At one time it was under Dutch control and Japanese.
You're only counting Tibet from 1951?

Ming Dynasty? 1388-1644? (had to google it) So, china ruled taiwan, then it ended?
__________________
"We have no white flag."
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 25 Jan 17, 13:21
bart dale's Avatar
bart dale bart dale is offline
Sergeant
United_States
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Detroit
Posts: 124
bart dale is on the path to success [1-99] bart dale is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
What? From a book I've read, even the selection of the dalai and panchen lama had to have the Chinese emperor's approval.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist...2%80%93present)



This means, before 1913 they were part of China, and that they were independent all of 1913 to 1951.
Chinese rule in Tbet only began in 1720. British rule over Ireland was much longer, beginning in the middle ages, and British effect on Ireland was greater than Chinese on Tibet from 1720 to 1912. But no one says Britain should have the right to reclaim Ireland.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 25 Jan 17, 16:12
GMan88's Avatar
GMan88 GMan88 is offline
General of the Forums
Philippines
5 Year Service Ribbon Most Significant/Influential Tank Campaign Most Significant/Influential Fighter Campaign Most Significant/Influential Multi-Role  Aircraft 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manila
Posts: 7,743
GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300] GMan88 is on a distinguished road [300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bart dale View Post
Chinese rule in Tbet only began in 1720. British rule over Ireland was much longer, beginning in the middle ages, and British effect on Ireland was greater than Chinese on Tibet from 1720 to 1912. But no one says Britain should have the right to reclaim Ireland.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibe...reignty_debate
Quote:
It is generally agreed that China and Tibet were independent prior to the*Yuan dynasty(12711368),[1]*and that Tibet has been ruled by the People's Republic of China (PRC) since 1959.[2]*The nature of Tibet's relationship with China in the intervening period is a matter of debate. The PRC claims that Tibet has been a part of China since the Yuan dynasty.[3]*TheRepublic of China*(ROC) claimed that "Tibet was placed under the sovereignty of China" when the*Qing dynasty*(16441912)*ended the brief Nepalese rule*(1788-1792) from parts of Tibet in c. 1793.[4]*The*Tibetan Government in Exile*claims that Tibet was an independent state until the PRC invaded Tibet in 1949/50.[5][6]*Some Western scholars claim that Tibet and China were ruled by the Mongols during the Yuan dynasty,[7]*that*Tibet was independent*during the Chinese*Ming dynasty*(13681644).[8]*and that Tibet was ruled by China[9]*or subordinate to the Qing[10]during much of the Qing dynasty.[11]*Some Western scholars also claim that Tibet wasindependent*from c. 1912 to 1950,[12]although it had extremely limited international recognition.[13]
I think it might be more reliable to see when every new dalai and panchen lama required confirmation from the Chinese emperor.

What others might or might not want to say of Britain regarding Ireland has no bearing here, unless there are more similarities for comparison?
__________________
"We have no white flag."

Last edited by GMan88; 25 Jan 17 at 16:18..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 26 Jan 17, 11:36
bart dale's Avatar
bart dale bart dale is offline
Sergeant
United_States
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Detroit
Posts: 124
bart dale is on the path to success [1-99] bart dale is on the path to success [1-99]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan88 View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibe...reignty_debate


I think it might be more reliable to see when every new dalai and panchen lama required confirmation from the Chinese emperor.

What others might or might not want to say of Britain regarding Ireland has no bearing here, unless there are more similarities for comparison?
Tibet has not always been part of China, that is a fact, and there is no solid evidence of China rule over before Tbet before the Qing dynasty. The Mongols conquered Tibet, true, but they also conquered Korea, yet no one considers Korea as part of China.

Even if the dalai and panchen lama's required confirmation from the Chinese emperor, that does not make Tibet part of China, anymore than the English approval of Indian Raja's made India part of Britain. They Tibetan leaders might have found it easier to placate the greedy Chinese on a minor matter, than to pointless challenge them.

The Chinese I am sure make claims, but frankly Communist China hasn't been noted for their honesty or accuracy, and the wikipedia article reflects the politicized history promoted by the Chinese. Prior to 1720, I haven't seen any evidence of Chinese troops posted in Tibet, or any other sign of Chinese administration or rule. Simply because a peoples have been subject to foreign rule for a long time does not give that foreign power the right to rule over it forever.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Please bookmark this thread if you enjoyed it!


Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 22:28.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.