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South Asia and World Terrorism Discuss the War in Afghanistan, civil war in Pakistan, and events around the Indian sub-continent.

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  #91  
Old 08 Mar 17, 16:15
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^I'm sorry you paint a very rosy picture of middle ages

ISIS is doing today will be child's play compared to atrocities committed by Muslim sultans and Christian emperors in middle ages but thankfully most western Christians today find it revolting while most religious Muslims reminisce about that barbaric golden age

Small example have you ever read about the practice of castration of little boys in the middle East and other places during this glorious era you are talking about? This is your idolized version of morality
The problem is not ISIS but
The orthodix religious Muslims who are blocking true reformation in Islam so it can shed its medieval barbaric past and embrace pluralism like sufis did to a certain extent and maybe more rationalist like mutazila.Without this ISIL like movements will keep popping up periodically in the middle East, since the root of the problem still exists.

Last edited by nastle; 08 Mar 17 at 16:43..
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  #92  
Old 19 Mar 17, 02:05
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"Golden" age?
See this-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmsRA9pGAFQ

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  #93  
Old 19 Mar 17, 04:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
^I'm sorry you paint a very rosy picture of middle ages

ISIS is doing today will be child's play compared to atrocities committed by Muslim sultans and Christian emperors in middle ages but thankfully most western Christians today find it revolting while most religious Muslims reminisce about that barbaric golden age

Small example have you ever read about the practice of castration of little boys in the middle East and other places during this glorious era you are talking about? This is your idolized version of morality
The problem is not ISIS but
The orthodix religious Muslims who are blocking true reformation in Islam so it can shed its medieval barbaric past and embrace pluralism like sufis did to a certain extent and maybe more rationalist like mutazila.Without this ISIL like movements will keep popping up periodically in the middle East, since the root of the problem still exists.
Wrong.
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  #94  
Old 20 Mar 17, 04:52
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Ah those internet warriors, bravely pecking away on their keyboards...
What are you doing Rambo?
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  #95  
Old 20 Mar 17, 05:05
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
I'm of the opinion that Project Thor should be utilized on mecca, media, and the dome of the rock.

Hey, the barbarians want to live in the 14th century, let it be so.
Idiot thinking , turning the sands of the world into glass. You keep wanting to open Pandora's box without considering the results.
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  #96  
Old 27 Mar 17, 15:35
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What Do Jihadis Want? The Caliphate

by Daniel Pipes
Global Terrorism: Challenges and Policy Options
2017

EXCERPT:
...
Motives for Jihadi Attacks

Why do the motives go unexplained? Post the attacks on the United States on 11 September 2001, analysts are still speculating on the likely motives. In broad terms however, we can state that there are two general categories or motives for attacks.

The first is to change specific policies of the state which has been targeted. As an example, this could pertain to seeking withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq and Afghanistan or to get Riyadh to expel foreign troops from its soil. It could also be aimed at pressuring governments to end support for Israel or to pressure New Delhi to cede control over Kashmir.

The second category is more broad-based and is aimed at weakening non-Muslims in general, undermining their economy, creating fear in the minds of their populace and attempting to establish Muslim superiority. But both the categories point to something even larger. The jihadis seek to establish a world dominated by Muslims, Islam, Shari'a and the caliphate.

We see jihad take two forms, based on the relative strength of the Muslim population in an area. Where non-Muslims rule, the attempt is to gain control over the levers of power, and to be in charge. The aim is to overthrow kafir rule. There is no direct attempt to convert, but the war is a war for territory. Where Muslims rule, the aim is to apply Shari'a in its entirety. The hope or end state is for a pious, just, ruler who can make Muslims strong and rich and who can end their divisions. The end state of both is however a global caliphate. The Caliph rules over all the peoples of the world and implements Shari'a law in its entirety.
...
http://www.meforum.org/6601/what-do-...c6847-33661481
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  #97  
Old 27 Mar 17, 17:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
^I'm sorry you paint a very rosy picture of middle ages

ISIS is doing today will be child's play compared to atrocities committed by Muslim sultans and Christian emperors in middle ages but thankfully most western Christians today find it revolting while most religious Muslims reminisce about that barbaric golden age

Small example have you ever read about the practice of castration of little boys in the middle East and other places during this glorious era you are talking about? This is your idolized version of morality
The problem is not ISIS but
The orthodix religious Muslims who are blocking true reformation in Islam so it can shed its medieval barbaric past and embrace pluralism like sufis did to a certain extent and maybe more rationalist like mutazila.Without this ISIL like movements will keep popping up periodically in the middle East, since the root of the problem still exists.
I submit that I paint no rosy picture of anything, rather it can not be denied that the democracy we enjoy today in the United States traces its influence to the great and hospitable Christian and Muslim Kingdoms of the middle ages. Freedom is not all of a sudden ingrained into the human mind...the ideals the founding fathers used to establish the United States was based on the ideals we saw from the great Empires of the past.

Like how it was in the 20th century...the 5th-15th century saw a # of intolerant leaders, but it would be demonstrably wrong to suggest that the entire Middle ages were a time of violence and intolerance.
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  #98  
Old 19 Jun 17, 20:24
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ISIL members and anti Muslims will not speak the Truth about Islam of which Islam like the Ancient Israelite and Christian religion guarantees equality among man, Muhammad allowed Christians to pray in a Christian manner in a Mosque.

It is a false talking point that Muslims most fight for any place that was once Muslim...a talking point which mimics the talking points of the eldars of zion. How any man can be consumed by such anti Muslim and anti Israelite hatred is beyond me. Muhammad fought side by side with Jews and Christians and that historical fact demolishes the lies against religion,

In the ninth year after the Hijra (631), a prominent Christian delegation from Najrān, an important centre of Christianity in the Yemen,came to engage the Prophet in theological debate in Medina. The main point of contention was the nature of Christ: was he one of the messengers of God or the unique Son of God? What is of importance for our purposes is not the disagreements voiced, but the fact that when these Christians requested to leave the city to perform their liturgy, the Prophet invited them to accomplish their rites in his own mosque. According to Ibn Ishaq, who gives the standard account of this remarkable event, the Christians in question were Malaki, that is, they performed the Byzantine Christian rites. This means that they were enacting the Eucharistic rites which incorporated the fully-developed trinitarian theology of the Orthodox councils, emphasising the definitive creed of the divine sonship of Christ – doctrines explicitly criticised in the Qur’an. Nonetheless, the Prophet allowed the Christians to accomplish their mass and their rites in his own mosque. One observes here a perfect example of how disagreement on the plane of dogma can co-space, which is the exclusive property of no one religion.

https://coexist101.wordpress.com/category/hadith/
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Old 24 Jun 17, 21:44
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Old 25 Jun 17, 07:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
ISIL members and anti Muslims will not speak the Truth about Islam of which Islam like the Ancient Israelite and Christian religion guarantees equality among man, Muhammad allowed Christians to pray in a Christian manner in a Mosque.

It is a false talking point that Muslims most fight for any place that was once Muslim...a talking point which mimics the talking points of the eldars of zion. How any man can be consumed by such anti Muslim and anti Israelite hatred is beyond me. Muhammad fought side by side with Jews and Christians and that historical fact demolishes the lies against religion,

In the ninth year after the Hijra (631), a prominent Christian delegation from Najrān, an important centre of Christianity in the Yemen,came to engage the Prophet in theological debate in Medina. The main point of contention was the nature of Christ: was he one of the messengers of God or the unique Son of God? What is of importance for our purposes is not the disagreements voiced, but the fact that when these Christians requested to leave the city to perform their liturgy, the Prophet invited them to accomplish their rites in his own mosque. According to Ibn Ishaq, who gives the standard account of this remarkable event, the Christians in question were Malaki, that is, they performed the Byzantine Christian rites. This means that they were enacting the Eucharistic rites which incorporated the fully-developed trinitarian theology of the Orthodox councils, emphasising the definitive creed of the divine sonship of Christ – doctrines explicitly criticised in the Qur’an. Nonetheless, the Prophet allowed the Christians to accomplish their mass and their rites in his own mosque. One observes here a perfect example of how disagreement on the plane of dogma can co-space, which is the exclusive property of no one religion.

https://coexist101.wordpress.com/category/hadith/
But this same muhammad also started the perpetual warfare against christian byzantines, his cousin Jafar was killed fighting against them.
so whats your point ?
he was so "tolerant " that he told some of his followers to go and burn down a rival mosque in medina

most people who have read history know very well that Muhammad was far less brutal and savage than most muslim dynasties or govts of today.If Muhammad was alive today he would not be like OBL or saddam rather more like King Hussain of Jordan ( who despite his glamor was still a brutal tyrant at heart yet classy enough to get along with most world leaders , knows how to talk the talk,diplomatic,playboy, restrained but when pushed utterly decietful and ruthless like a true arab merchant)

The real question is what status does muslim law has offered to christians in their countries throughout the centuries? Have muslims not raided pillaged the white christian heartlands and enslaved them for centuries ?

Last edited by nastle; 25 Jun 17 at 07:10..
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  #101  
Old 25 Jun 17, 11:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastle View Post
But this same muhammad also started the perpetual warfare against christian byzantines, his cousin Jafar was killed fighting against them.
so whats your point ?
he was so "tolerant " that he told some of his followers to go and burn down a rival mosque in medina

most people who have read history know very well that Muhammad was far less brutal and savage than most muslim dynasties or govts of today.If Muhammad was alive today he would not be like OBL or saddam rather more like King Hussain of Jordan ( who despite his glamor was still a brutal tyrant at heart yet classy enough to get along with most world leaders , knows how to talk the talk,diplomatic,playboy, restrained but when pushed utterly decietful and ruthless like a true arab merchant)

The real question is what status does muslim law has offered to christians in their countries throughout the centuries? Have muslims not raided pillaged the white christian heartlands and enslaved them for centuries ?
The Byzantine Christians have also been accused of extreme anti Jewish measures..there was a debate between the anti Islamic Robert Spencer and a Muslim scholar not to long ago and the Muslim scholar suggested the Byzantines attempted to at a time in place in their history to exterminate Jews...so Muhammad saw this injustice and decided to fight the Byzantines for he feared for his own people upon seeing the injustices against the Jews...And we can compare the Byzantines to the Latin Catholics of the First Crusade who allowed Jews and Muslims religious freedom according to the 12th century Muslim scholar Ibn Jubair. In any event though wrt the warfare point you bring up.....America exists today because the founders fought the British and we also later fought the Indians and Mexicans to gain more land....many good people died during these wars in America. Like American history...the early Muslim history also saw injustices but over time the injustices were corrected. The fact is that the US constitution allows for freedom of religion so does the Quran which even says Jews, Christians and Sabians can have their reward with their Lord.

I have also shown itt a link which details how Muhammad allowed Christians to pray in his Mosque...thats about as tolerate as one can get so thats more then enough proof that Muhammad was not against Christians in general.. Also merely knowing that many modern day Muslims are happily married to Christians why even engage in anti Islamic suggestions...Knowing the great empires of the past expanded due to multicultural values and being welcomed by their new lands in many cases.....I feel its very beneficial to point out honorable non Christian societies and certainly Baghdad for example was one of if not the greatest city of all time many centuries ago... It was here in the so called west where your countrymen in the 18th-19yh century wrote beautiful and adventurous tales reflective of the prosperous times that were once enjoyed in Baghdad during the Islamic Golden age.
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  #102  
Old 26 Jun 17, 04:28
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.America exists today because the founders fought the British and we also later fought the Indians and Mexicans to gain more land....many good people died during these wars in America. Like American history...the early Muslim history also saw injustices but over time the injustices were corrected.
overtime corrected ?
early muslim caliphs were a lot better than later one
muslim treatment of nonmuslims are arguably much better in 7th centruy than in 13th century
the values decayed and calcified over time , did not get better
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  #103  
Old 30 Jun 17, 10:58
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Well they just conquered that territory of course their conduct had to be better.

Also, any stupid religious person should be shamed off the planet. It's the 21st century their is no God or Gods or boogyman or fairy or any other nonsense.

These barbarians must moderate completely or die. Raise the black flag of rationality.

Any Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist or any other religion who values their religion over life needs to GTFO this planet. Forever.
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