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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > South Asia and World Terrorism

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South Asia and World Terrorism Discuss the War in Afghanistan, civil war in Pakistan, and events around the Indian sub-continent.

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  #16  
Old 29 Nov 16, 20:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
The following source includes information regarding Muslim scholars showcasing how the Quran and Hadiths(sayings of Muhammad) disapprove of what ISIL and ISIL like groups do.


During the early 1990s a series of dubious individuals, ignorant pseudo-scholars appeared in Britain. With a command of the Arabic language and able to deceive people into thinking they were scholars, they acquired followings. They include Abū Ḥamzah al-Miṣrī, Abū Qatādah, Omar Bakrī and others. They were promoting the doctrines of misguided thinkers such as Sayyid Quṭb, Abū Aʿlā al-Mawdūdī and Taqī al-Dīn al-Nabahānī who were responsible for creating political movements based upon distorted understandings of basic Islāmic tenets.

During WW2 and in the USA and Soviet Union it would have been unimaginable to post a cartoon picture in response to a newspaper about Soviet Soldiers dying in the fight against the Third Reich. One of things folks all around the world could to do help stop ISIL is to post anti ISIL messages on facebook. Get the word out the Jihad is not what ISIL does, Jihad means to study a little bit harder for the math exam as this site points out,

http://myjihad.org/
The Muslims performing the so-called "terrorist" actions refer to what they do as Jihad, and anyone being honest about Islam would acknowledge that there are different forms of Jihad. These Islamists/Jihadists view themselves as fundamentalists of Islam and true followers Muhammad's example and command;

"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah."

From;
Book 001, Number 0033:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...t.php#001.0033

One may find Numbers 0030, 0031, 0032 of related interest as well.
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:16
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There is a Catch 22 here in that what was said to Muhammad by Allah can't be changed and the last of the revelations is very anti non-Muslim. The Koran is not arranged in order of revelation, but roughly longest to shortest of the chapters/Surah. Any later revelation that contradicts an earlier one is the one that was to apply, abrogation. Here's a link to the chronological order of the Koran;
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronologi...f_the_Qur%27an

Some of the relating passages of the Koran, addressing the mandate of (physical)Jihad(Holy War) and rewards for engaging in such, etc.;

[2.154] And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.
[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.
[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
[8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
[8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.36] Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
[33.26] And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.
[33.27] And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.
[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
[47.5] He will guide them and improve their condition.
[47.6] And cause them to enter the garden which He has made known to them.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
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  #18  
Old 29 Nov 16, 20:27
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ISIS and Al-Qaida: Their Primary Targets and Greatest Victims






http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...st-victims.cfm
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:30
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"Muslims are the main victims of al Qaeda's deadly terrorist attacks against the West, despite claims by the group's leaders that only a few Muslims have died in the organization's global war against Westerners, according to a study by the Combating terrorism Center at West Point, N.Y. "

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...st-victims.cfm
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
The Muslims performing the so-called "terrorist" actions refer to what they do as Jihad, and anyone being honest about Islam would acknowledge that there are different forms of Jihad. These Islamists/Jihadists view themselves as fundamentalists of Islam and true followers Muhammad's example and command;

"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah."

From;
Book 001, Number 0033:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...t.php#001.0033

One may find Numbers 0030, 0031, 0032 of related interest as well.
Of most related interest is how Muslims react to ISIL and ISIL like groups. And the fruits of Islam include thousands of Iraqi and Syrian Muslims who have died fighting ISIL. Yes ISIL is sighting Jihad, and Quran and Hadith as reason for what they do, as are the Muslims fighting ISIL. The Muslims and Christians of Syria and Iraq need people like you on there side, to show how ISIL, AQ, and any Muslim who attacks innocents goes against the Quran. Its like I was saying wrt WW2...you might not like everything about Iran or Syria but Frederick Douglass said I would do right with anyone and wrong with none. And certainly Jordan is a great country, Jordan dislikes ISIL severely and the King of Jordan is a military man who has adamantly spoken out against intolerant Muslims.
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:39
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Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...24/theobserver
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Of most related interest is how Muslims react to ISIL and ISIL like groups. And the fruits of Islam include thousands of Iraqi and Syrian Muslims who have died fighting ISIL. Yes ISIL is sighting Jihad, and Quran and Hadith as reason for what they do, as are the Muslims fighting ISIL. The Muslims and Christians of Syria and Iraq need people like you on there side, to show how ISIL, AQ, and any Muslim who attacks innocents goes against the Quran. Its like I was saying wrt WW2...you might not like everything about Iran or Syria but Frederick Douglass said I would do right with anyone and wrong with none. And certainly Jordan is a great country, Jordan dislikes ISIL severely and the King of Jordan is a military man who has adamantly spoken out against intolerant Muslims.
Get back to me when Islam denounces and removes Sharia and Zakat from their dogma and practice. Until then it's all bad apples of different colors IMO.
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...24/theobserver
Hitler interviews were published in the USA. Both Hitler and Bin Laden were severe enemies of the USA. David, the Muslims and Christians of the middle east desperately need anything they can get to help fight intolerance. It would be tremendous if you could use your skill to support the Muslims. There is no grand conspiracy here...there are Atheist Muslims in Syria...have been for centuries. There are Muslims in the middle east who drink alcohol. All these good peaceful Muslims need anything they can get to help fight intolerance and even a little thing such as arguing online that for example ISIL goes against ISIL helps out alot.
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Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 29 Nov 16 at 20:52.. Reason: Hitler interviews, not articles
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Guide to Understanding terrorism for Teachers and Students.
"Islam forbids all forms of terrorist activity. There are however some extreme factions of people who, in the name of Islam, terrorise both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. The most well-known of these militant groups are al-Qaeda and ISIS in Syria and Iraq. These terrorist groups are called Khawarij in Islamic terminology because the term refers to those who rebel against Islam and the Muslims." By Abu Khadeejah Abdul-Wahid.






http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...d-students.cfm
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Old 29 Nov 16, 20:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Get back to me when Islam denounces and removes Sharia and Zakat from their dogma and practice. Until then it's all bad apples of different colors IMO.
Catholicism can not remove Canon law. Islam can not remove Sharia law. Not all Muslims are the same, go to modern day Turkey where there is secularism, or Saddams Iraq, or Syria under Assad, or go to Communist Afghanistan.

Nobody expects Christians to denounce the Crusades and Canon Law(nor should they) . Same for Muslims ,Jihad and the great Muslim Sultans of the middle ages such as Al Kamil. I refuse to denounce Canon law, Crusaders, my Christian ancestors. I am proud of my European- Christian-Italian-Irish-Scottish- Roman Heritage. I would provide the same respect to Iraqi Arab Muslims, Syrian Arab Christians, Israeli Arab Jews...the list goes on and on. One can respect Islam, Christianity and its laws but also demand for equal treatment of all people in the modern age which is what I and most of the other 3+ billion Christians and Muslims of the world would have to say.
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Old 29 Nov 16, 21:03
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Boring Mr. Bock. You've proven your points many times before...
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Old 29 Nov 16, 21:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
Boring Mr. Bock. You've proven your points many times before...
Perhaps, but in case of any new members/readers here I thought it might help to archive some counter points. Except for a possible reference to Aztec religion or such, I'm done with this thread for now.
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Old 29 Nov 16, 21:22
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Another occurrence is the argument that oh Muslims dislike AQ but clearly somehow agree with Hamas and Hezbollah. Russia, the vaunted country even here in America by Trump supporters...does not denounce Hezbollah as a terror group...nor does China. To my knowledge South Africa does not denounce Hamas/Hezbollah. Well the singular reason I disagree with hamas and hezbollah is because the US gov does so....not because other countries do so.

It would be shameful behavior to just go jam question after question down the throats of Christians...oh hey you denounce the KKK, you denounce the IRA, how about the LRA, how about the abortion clinic attacks, etc.? Most Christians of the world are against Klan ideology. Same can be said about Muslims and the ISIL, AQ. Most Muslims of the world are against the AQ/ISIL type mindset.

Most important most Muslims do not live in Israel/Palestine and are more concerned with their lives in their countries and probably many dont even know the political landscape of Palestine.

Due to the Trump-Russia connection.the Israel Russia connection, and the fact that Syria and Israel have had trade with each other....we very well may see a change in relations between Gaza-Israel, Iran-Israel, and Syria-Israel. This last paragraph is a diplomatic and beneficial thing to say and I urge Bwaha to please consider the words of Frederick Douglass. I would do right with anyone and wrong with no one.
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Old 29 Nov 16, 21:25
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Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+] Bwaha has achieved enlightenment [1200+]
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Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Perhaps, but in case of any new members/readers here I thought it might help to archive so counter points. Except for a possible reference to Aztec religion or such, I'm done with this thread for now.
It's just that it puts a lousy thread at the top of the new posts. I think there might be something new yet its the same old same old.

I read your posts while totally ignoring the other guy. I don't waste any further effort or time on that one.
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  #30  
Old 29 Nov 16, 21:27
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Stonewall_Jack Stonewall_Jack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
It's just that it puts a lousy thread at the top of the new posts. I think there might be something new yet its the same old same old.

I read your posts while totally ignoring the other guy. I don't waste any further effort or time on that one.
You do not totally ignore me. You have indirectly respond to my posts numerous times , some of them direct responses showing you clearly read a # of my posts.

Jesus Christ commanded to be nice to your neighbor. Hatred agaisnt Muslims is an attack agaisnt Christians. The Muslims and Christians of Syria need your help in the fight against intolerance.
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