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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Latin America & the Caribbean

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Latin America & the Caribbean Including issues of Central and South America and Mexico.

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  #46  
Old 28 Nov 16, 08:04
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Well the CIA during this period tried to kill and did kill a lot of people.

I've not been to Cuba but it does appear a lot of them have ana affection for him . Then again you do see Russians in processions with pictures of Stalin. Perhaps many do see Castro as standing up to the Americans so their hardships can always be blamed on the yankees rather than the government .

Last edited by copenhagen; 28 Nov 16 at 08:10..
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  #47  
Old 28 Nov 16, 08:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Or because some smooth talker(s) convince enough people that
  • They can offer them paradise (either secular or spiritual)
  • The current regime is taking them to hell (either secular or spiritual)
  • The current regime are not legitimate rulers (but they are) This may be for reasons of dynastic legitimacy, differences in creed, culture or racial identity between the rulers and the ruled
  • Any combination of all of the above.

If the regime currently in power are " incompetent, corrupt or just plain malignant" this will make matters easier but is not essential
yes there are many like that --hitler, Jim Jones, the Comet people, David Koresh, etc
a lot of these so called countries are not countries at all..such as Iraq under sadam, etc...they are ruled by dictators, the rich, etc.....Mubarak is another example..in power for almost 30 years !?!

Last edited by Moulin; 28 Nov 16 at 08:21..
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  #48  
Old 28 Nov 16, 08:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
yes there are many like that --hitler, Jim Jones, the Comet people, David Koresh, etc
a lot of these so called countries are not countries at all..such as Iraq under sadam, etc...they are ruled by dictators, the rich, etc
Having visited Iraq in the Saddam period I fail to see your logic - it was certainly a sovereign country then albeit one ruled by the National Socialist Baath party run by a brutal dictator.

A great many revolutions are in reality coups carried out by a relatively small proportion of the population and sometimes supported, financed etc by external bodies
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  #49  
Old 28 Nov 16, 10:19
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Originally Posted by VillyVonka View Post
Whatever his faults, and I've been to Cuba to see for myself and there is genuine affection for the man, glad to see Castro having reached the grand old age of 90, outliving the hypocrites and warmongers who tried so desperately to have him killed, and failed.

The CIA try to assassinate him how many times - hundreds? And he lives to 90...brilliant!
Care to document any of those 'hundreds'?

How many of those he imprisoned for wanting basic freedoms lived to be 90?
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  #50  
Old 28 Nov 16, 11:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Care to document any of those 'hundreds'?

How many of those he imprisoned for wanting basic freedoms lived to be 90?
It wasn't hundreds but it was quite a few times. Everything from an exploding cigar to a plot to poison his wetsuit plus a bazooka.
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  #51  
Old 28 Nov 16, 12:11
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Originally Posted by VillyVonka View Post
Whatever his faults, and I've been to Cuba to see for myself and there is genuine affection for the man, glad to see Castro having reached the grand old age of 90, outliving the hypocrites and warmongers who tried so desperately to have him killed, and failed.

The CIA try to assassinate him how many times - hundreds? And he lives to 90...brilliant!
"Warmonger" Castro forced the country to fight in wars in Africa he was a warmonger himself.
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  #52  
Old 28 Nov 16, 13:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copenhagen View Post
It wasn't hundreds but it was quite a few times. Everything from an exploding cigar to a plot to poison his wetsuit plus a bazooka.
The number was the issue I had.
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  #53  
Old 28 Nov 16, 14:00
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Having visited Iraq in the Saddam period I fail to see your logic - it was certainly a sovereign country then albeit one ruled by the National Socialist Baath party run by a brutal dictator.

A great many revolutions are in reality coups carried out by a relatively small proportion of the population and sometimes supported, financed etc by external bodies
they get power by bloody and bloodless coups...murdering opponents, they are in power for YEARS--by using the same uncivilized tactics....
a lot of these are military coups !
remember where they found the great President of Iraq?? in a HOLE ! haha--just like a common thief, punk, etc from some tribe...

Quote:
Later that year, the Ba'ath Party leadership was planning to assassinate Qasim. Saddam was a leading member of the operation.
how nice....these are more like areas with tribes....fighting each other,..not stable countries...they just had another bombing where many were killed...tribes fighting tribes

Quote:
Saddam created security forces through which he tightly controlled conflict between the government and the armed forces.
??? this is a stable ''country''?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam...#Rise_to_power

Quote:
President Mubarak was re-elected by majority votes in a referendum for successive terms on four occasions: in 1987, 1993, and 1999. No other candidates could run against the president because a restriction in the Egyptian constitution in which the People's Assembly played the main role in electing the President of the Republic
Idi Amin
Quote:
Having learned that Obote was planning to arrest him for misappropriating army funds, Amin seized power in a military coup on 25 January 1971,
Rwanda-Burundi
Quote:
Following the 1992 ceasefire agreement, a number of the extremists in the Rwandan government and army began actively plotting against the president,
Quote:
In October 1993, the President of Burundi, Melchior Ndadaye, who had been elected in June as the country's first ever Hutu president, was assassinated by extremist Tutsi army officers.
Quote:
On April 6, 1994, the airplane carrying Rwandan President Juvénal Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira, the Hutu president of Burundi, was shot down as it prepared to land in Kigali, killing everyone on board
etc etc....if this is your definition of a 'country'-?
Somalia is another great example... [ caps are for emphasis only ]

Last edited by Moulin; 28 Nov 16 at 14:47..
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  #54  
Old 28 Nov 16, 15:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
they get power by bloody and bloodless coups...murdering opponents, they are in power for YEARS--by using the same uncivilized tactics....
a lot of these are military coups !
remember where they found the great President of Iraq?? in a HOLE ! haha--just like a common thief, punk, etc from some tribe...


how nice....these are more like areas with tribes....fighting each other,..not stable countries...they just had another bombing where many were killed...tribes fighting tribes


??? this is a stable ''country''?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam...#Rise_to_power



Idi Amin


Rwanda-Burundi





etc etc....if this is your definition of a 'country'-?
Somalia is another great example... [ caps are for emphasis only ]
No it was the definition of many Iraqis I have known including exiles and opponents of Saddam who still regarded Iraq as their country All your arguments are sheer bombast - a country is what its people decide is their country
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  #55  
Old 28 Nov 16, 18:21
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
No it was the definition of many Iraqis I have known including exiles and opponents of Saddam who still regarded Iraq as their country All your arguments are sheer bombast - a country is what its people decide is their country
president of the great country of Iraq caught hiding in a hole !
great army of Iraq defeated on the ground in just days !
Somalia--a country?? no way....crap hole..let's not be PC here, let's be realistic

Quote:
In 1958, a coup d'etat known as the 14 July Revolution led by the Brigadier General Abd al-Karim Qasim. This revolt was strongly anti-imperial and anti-monarchical in nature and had strong socialist elements. Numerous people were killed in the coup, including King Faysal II, Prince Abd al-Ilah, and Nuri al-Sa'id.[51] Qasim controlled Iraq through military rule
plus Saddam was military..... so the people love the military ruling them?

Quote:
the Ba'athist Iraqi regime led the Al-Anfal Campaign, a genocidal[57] campaign that targeted Iraqi Kurds,[58][59][60] and led to the killing of 50,000–100,000 civilians.[61] Chemical weapons were also used against Iraqi Shia civilians during the 1991 uprisings in Iraq.
the leaders killing civilians of a rival ''tribe'' ? the Kurds love their countrymen/country

Quote:
In 2008, fighting continued and Iraq's newly trained armed forces launched attacks against militants
Quote:
During 2013, Sunni militant groups stepped up attacks targeting the Iraq's Shia population in an attempt to undermine confidence in the Nouri al-Maliki-led government.[97] In 2014
still fighting and disunity in Iraq...still disunited....unlike the United States.....
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  #56  
Old 28 Nov 16, 20:14
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Look, this is a history forum, so we all know the score. We all know about Batista, Fidel, the CIA, Bay of Pigs, etc.

What I'm seeing is many lamenting the loss of Castro because he held out longer than most others. Except, of course, the Norks.....

So will the lefties mourning the loss of this horrible individual move to admiring Kim?

The Cold War was very much a war. And even the good guys will do less than good things in war.

This doesn't make Castro any less "bad", unless you have a skewed view of good and bad.....
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  #57  
Old 28 Nov 16, 20:17
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I was taking the folks to the doctor this morning and much to my shock and amazement that KGO was reviling him.

KGO is the main talk radio station in San Fransicko...
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  #58  
Old 29 Nov 16, 00:33
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Originally Posted by Bwaha View Post
I was taking the folks to the doctor this morning and much to my shock and amazement that KGO was reviling him.

KGO is the main talk radio station in San Fransicko...
And so? Too many of brainwashed idiots denounce SF without a clue to what they are talking about. Including you when you keep calling us San Fransicko.

KSFO is host to talk shows which inculde: Michael Savage, Mark Levine, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingram, etc, etc. You might want to admit to Santa Cruz's uberprogressiveness before constantly insulting our city.
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  #59  
Old 29 Nov 16, 00:52
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Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
And so? Too many of brainwashed idiots denounce SF without a clue to what they are talking about. Including you when you keep calling us San Fransicko.

KSFO is host to talk shows which inculde: Michael Savage, Mark Levine, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingram, etc, etc. You might want to admit to Santa Cruz's uberprogressiveness before constantly insulting our city.
Hey buddy I have a distaste for concrete monster buildings. I prefer redwoods rather than skyscrapers and urban blight.

Rush makes me sick, he used to be funny but not so much anymore. (I could be wrong but I quit listening to him long ago.)

How about this? Try listening to Charlie Freedman on KSCO? I think you'd find it quite refreshing. Plus his bumper music is most excellent.

http://ksco.com/69-podcasts/39590-th...-freedman-show

Try it, it's a quite good show.

Sorry to insult your city, I avoid it like the plague. I just don't care for it. I haven't been there in forty years and have no desire to visit it.

Though I'll offer you a walk in the Redwoods free of charge as a settlement.

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  #60  
Old 29 Nov 16, 05:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
president of the great country of Iraq caught hiding in a hole !
great army of Iraq defeated on the ground in just days !
Somalia--a country?? no way....crap hole..let's not be PC here, let's be realistic



plus Saddam was military..... so the people love the military ruling them?



the leaders killing civilians of a rival ''tribe'' ? the Kurds love their countrymen/country




still fighting and disunity in Iraq...still disunited....unlike the United States.....
What has any of this to do as to whether a country is a country nothing! A country can be well governed and/or united or ill governed and/or fractious and still be a country in either case.
Mexico for example has often been ill governed (most of the time) and often at violent odds with its self but it has remained a country!

Did the USA vanish during the Civil War? Did Spain vanish during hers? The collapse/split of a government does nit extinguish a country even though it may plunge it into disorder and violence.
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Last edited by MarkV; 29 Nov 16 at 06:05..
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