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  #46  
Old 25 Nov 16, 20:36
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Arnold...

That "battle you cannot spell" is ISANDHLWANA and along with Rorkes Drift and the landings at Salerno, all fall on my birthday of Jan 22 1879.....1943....... 1967 for my birthdate....



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  #47  
Old 25 Nov 16, 21:18
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Trying to focus on US military last stands, but that in no way diminishes the soldiers that fought and died in other country's last stands which also happened on my birthday Jan 22.
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  #48  
Old 25 Nov 16, 22:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus Nero View Post
Arnold...

That "battle you cannot spell" is ISANDHLWANA and along with Rorkes Drift and the landings at Salerno, all fall on my birthday of Jan 22 1879.....1943....... 1967 for my birthdate....



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  #49  
Old 25 Nov 16, 23:18
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I'm going to have to go with Rimmers suggestion about the Java sea battle.
I think if you focus on the USS Houston..........it pretty much defines a "last stand" Bataan is also a very strong contender.

Here is a very detailed eyewitness account of The Houston's last days.
https://news.usni.org/2014/08/22/nig...s-houston-went

The united states navy did not even know the fate of that ship for over 9 months.........talk about being alone with no help.......
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  #50  
Old 25 Nov 16, 23:45
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Good one rimmer!

Fun it was anyway,New lists always are!
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  #51  
Old 26 Nov 16, 00:32
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Did anyone mention Wake Island yet? How about Hue? True it was the NVA that were being attacked. Then we have Mobile Group 100 in Vietnam with the French on the receiving end.

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  #52  
Old 26 Nov 16, 02:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
Not to mention the Japanese; they fought to the last man as a matter of habit.

IIRC the 173rd lost a detachment during Operation Hump that literally fought to the last.

During IDrang the 1/7 Cav had a platoon cut off that survived, but it certainly was on the route to 'the last man'.

If as suggested we count early naval actions,. I think there was an action on the Great Lakes during the War of 1812 that would count, but the details escape me at this late hour.
I am trying to find info on that 173rd detachment during Operation Hump. Only thing I can dig up was the the party MOH recipient Medic Lawrence Joel got for continuing aid during an ambush.
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  #53  
Old 26 Nov 16, 03:14
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Almost half of the last stands happened during the Indian Wars. Guess, the threat of certain death, scalping, torture or enslavement was probably why. Here's what I have so far. Theres got to be more.

4 November 1791 St. Clair's Defeat
28 March 1814 Battle of Valparaíso
17 August – 26 December 1862 Dakota War of 1862
18 August 1862 Battle of Redwood Ferry
19-23 August 1862 Battles of New Ulm
20-22 August 1862 Battle of Fort Ridgely
2 September 1862 Battle of Birch Coulee
26 July 1865 Battle of Platte Bridge
21 December 1866 Fetterman Fight
1 August 1867 Hayfield Fight
17–19 September 1868 Battle of Beecher Island
27 November 1868 Battle of Washita River
12–13 September 1874 Battle of Buffalo Wallow
25–26 June 1876 Battle of the Little Bighorn
20 June– 14 August 1900 Siege of the International Legations
2–8 October 1918 The Lost Battalion during Meuse-Argonne Offensive
8–23 December 1941 Battle of Wake Island
7 January – 9 April 1942 Battle of Bataan
28 February – 1 March 1942 Battle of Sunda Strait
30 January – 2 February 1944 Battle of Cisterna
25 October 1944 The Battle off Samar
27 November – 13 December 1950 Battle of Chosin Reservoir
5–8 November 1965 Operation Hump
14–18 November 1965 Battle of Ia Drang
9–10 March 1966 Battle of A Shau
6–7 February 1968 Battle of Lang Vei
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  #54  
Old 26 Nov 16, 03:36
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another last stand?

I have another suggestion FROM the Guad Campaign. The ambush and last stand of the patrol of Lt Col Frank Goettge, and his sergeant Stephen A. Custer, plus 23 other men of Vandegrift's command.

Three got back by swimming. The remained were beheaded "bushido" style, first contact with this for the U.S....
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  #55  
Old 26 Nov 16, 09:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey View Post
Sunda Strait?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
I'm going to have to go with Rimmers suggestion about the Java sea battle.
I think if you focus on the USS Houston..........it pretty much defines a "last stand" Bataan is also a very strong contender.

Here is a very detailed eyewitness account of The Houston's last days.
https://news.usni.org/2014/08/22/nig...s-houston-went

The united states navy did not even know the fate of that ship for over 9 months.........talk about being alone with no help.......
Mentioned originally by "Surrey".

Please don't forget about HMAS Perth, which sunk alongside USS Houston, and HNLMS Evertsen.
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  #56  
Old 26 Nov 16, 10:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by At ease View Post
Mentioned originally by "Surrey".

Please don't forget about HMAS Perth, which sunk alongside USS Houston, and HNLMS Evertsen.
If you read the link... all those vessels are detailed........I believe the Perth sank just before the Houston........they were the last two.......
What amazes me is they must have all known they were dead..... just a matter of when..........
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  #57  
Old 26 Nov 16, 10:38
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Quote:
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If you read the link... all those vessels are detailed........I believe the Perth sank just before the Houston........they were the last two.......
What amazes me is they must have all known they were dead..... just a matter of when..........
If you read the link, you will find that the Dutch destroyer(which was actually the last of the three Allied ship to be sunk in the action that night) is not mentioned anywhere in the text.

According to the following video, which details the enduring connection between HMAS Perth and USS Houston, the Australian ship is the only foreign ship to have a plaque at the Arlington National Cemetery.

http://splash.abc.net.au/home#!/medi...mas-perth-1942

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ional_Cemetery

What amazes me is that the mascot of the HMAS Perth, the cat "Red Lead", seemed to know it had almost used up all of it's lives and had repeatedly tried to "jump ship" prior to the final engagement.

Quote:
On board HMAS Perth, Sunda Strait: Cats may have nine lives but Red Lead, the ship's cat on HMAS Perth, seemed to know that hers had come to an end 74 years ago.

Legend has it that Red Lead repeatedly tried to run away while the HMAS Perth was being refuelled at the port of Tanjung Priok, in what is now Jakarta, the night before the ship was torpedoed.

"Sailors are superstitious ... They said afterwards the cat knew something was afoot," says Ivan Ingham, the captain of the current HMAS Perth, the third ship to bear that name.

Red Lead was named after the pawprints she trekked through the ship after walking through red paint, which annoyed the World War II sailors no end.

Red pawprints are also dotted through the HMAS Perth III - one of the many touching ways it has kept alive the memory of the World War II cruiser.

On Wednesday, HMAS Perth III held a memorial service over the site of the wreck to honour the 375 Australians - and one cat - who died in the Sunda Strait between the islands of Java and Sumatra.
[.....]
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...62&postcount=1
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Last edited by At ease; 26 Nov 16 at 11:15..
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  #58  
Old 26 Nov 16, 11:10
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This has been a great thread, thanks to all who have contributed, I have a question about what qualifies as a last stand.
There are many actions that one or even both sides went into with the understanding that they were making a last stand, but the outcome was different than the expectations.
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  #59  
Old 27 Nov 16, 08:34
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yes Urb, that very question of qualification itself saw many a fine action turned away from the final list.
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Old 27 Nov 16, 09:52
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Quote:
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This has been a great thread, thanks to all who have contributed, I have a question about what qualifies as a last stand.
There are many actions that one or even both sides went into with the understanding that they were making a last stand, but the outcome was different than the expectations.

Following on from that thought, it seems to me the term ‘last stand’ is being interpreted very widely. In the situation where a force is beleaguered and has to make ‘a stand’ against superior odds, it either succeeds in holding off the enemy, needs to be rescued, or is overwhelmed. Those three are distinct from say a simple siege or a force that is cut off and wiped out.

The phrase ‘last stand’ implies an action or operation that has gone wrong and in the process of being defeated, the survivors make a stand, which may lead to final defeat (Custer) or succeed in holding the enemy off, enabling retreat or rescue.(Reno-Benteen)

Just taking some examples from the Plains Indian Wars:

1862 Fort Ridgely a week long siege in which massive Sioux attacks are successfully held off until relief column arrives. A near run thing after one range of the post buildings had to be set on fire.

1864 Adobe Walls Carson’s New Mexico column attack a large Kiowa-Commanche (et al) winter encampment. The outnumbered force manage to withstand successive attacks from the Indians before withdrawing with minimal casualties.

1866 Fort Phil Kearny established in hostile territory and the garrison effectively besieged, only able to operate within a small radius and communications with other U.S. forces severely limited.

- 1866 ‘Fetterman massacre’, a force from Fort Phil Kearny is lured into an ambush and wiped out. There were indications that the last to be killed, men of the cavalry element and scouts, armed with repeating carbines, may have made a brief ‘final stand.’

- 1867 Hayfield Fight; Waggon Box fight. Fatigue parties from Ft Phil Kearny attacked by large Indian forces. Superior firepower enables the beleaguered troops to hold off the enemy attacks until relieved, with disaster narrowly averted.

1867 Kidder Massacre A small patrol of 2nd Cavalry under Lt Lyman Kidder attacked by Cheyenne and Sioux and wiped out

1868 Republican River. Forsyth’s fighting patrol attacked in camp and hold off successive Cheyenne-Sioux attacks from positions on “Beecher’s Island’ over several days until relieved, after messengers successfully escape to seek help.

1868 Washita River. In a repeat of Adobe Walls, Custer’s column attacks a large winter encampment of Cheyenne Arapaho et al. Initially successful, Custer is forced to retreat when the Indians rally to drive him off. Major Joel Elliot having taken a troop to probe further downstream, is cut off and the detachment wiped out; some claim the party was abandoned by Custer to its fate.

1874 Buffalo Wallow A small 6th Cavalry mail party is surrounded on the Staked Plains and sheltering in a shallow hollow, holds off Indian attackers for a day. A different outcome to the Kidder party.

1876 Rosebud Creek. Crook’s column is caught off-guard by large Sioux-Cheyenne force. After intense 6-hour running fight, Indians withdraw. Crook retreats.

1876 Little Big Horn river:

1. Reno’s battalion repulsed and forced to dig in on bluffs above the river, reinforced by Benteen’s battalion. They withstand several days siege until relieved
2. Custer’s column is repulsed and defeated in detail. From the positionof the bodies, the command group including Custer and members of his family is popularly thought to have made a last stand on a hilltop set back from the river. If it occurred at all, this 'stand' may have only lasted a short time.

- It’s a moot point whether any of these actions other than the last, which may turn out to be folklore, can be counted as a ‘last stand’ (as opposed to making a stand, being surrounded or besieged).
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