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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #31  
Old 11 Nov 16, 09:00
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Another Irish regiment that took part in the AWI the Spanish Regimento Hibernia fist formed late 17th century. Red uniform with Green facings. Took part in the siege of Pensecola
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  #32  
Old 11 Nov 16, 09:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Well say so in your post title and not just
I should have added: during American Revolution
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  #33  
Old 11 Nov 16, 09:09
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Another Irish regiment that took part in the AWI the Spanish Regimento Hibernia fist formed late 17th century. Red uniform with Green facings. Took part in the siege of Pensecola
Thanks, could you please post Pictures of this regiment?.
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Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
(The problem with Pr.cks, is that they never get tired ) Michel Audiard

Last edited by PGT Beauregard; 11 Nov 16 at 09:24..
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  #34  
Old 11 Nov 16, 09:33
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Excuse me to fully disagree with you, being French, I know the difference between Marin and Marine, Compagnies Franches de Marine were not Marins but Infantery Troops use for overseas operation and attached to Marine Royale. anyway they were disbanded in 1761. It's the Anglos who Qualified their Regiments Marine Corps using the French term and not the other way round. Dillon and Walsh were Brigadier General and Lieutenant general, which are not French Navy Grade but Infantery Grades. Even if they were not Organized in an Independent Corps, they still were Marine Troops.
No, the Irish infantry regiments were infantry of the line, not Marine Troops. They belonged to the army, not to the French navy.

The Compagnies Franches de Marine belonged to the French Navy because the French Navy was responsible for the overseas colonies. They were naval troops for that reason, though they were not Marines.
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  #35  
Old 11 Nov 16, 09:54
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Just for information purposes, there were originally six Irish regiments in the French service. By 1791 they had dwindled to three: Dillon (87th), Berwick (88th), and Walsh (92d). All were regular line infantry regiments.

By this time the enlisted strength was generally no longer Irish, and hadn't been for over 20 years. The regiments were composed largely of Belgians and Bretons, and anyone else the recruiting parties could get their hands on.

Apparently, the future Marshal Augereau had once been in the now-disbanded Regiment Clare as an enlisted man.
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  #36  
Old 11 Nov 16, 10:43
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Originally Posted by PGT Beauregard View Post
Thanks, could you please post Pictures of this regiment?.
https://d1k5w7mbrh6vq5.cloudfront.ne...d0e6c39827.jpg
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  #37  
Old 11 Nov 16, 12:12
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Quote:
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No, the Irish infantry regiments were infantry of the line, not Marine Troops. They belonged to the army, not to the French navy.

The Compagnies Franches de Marine belonged to the French Navy because the French Navy was responsible for the overseas colonies. They were naval troops for that reason, though they were not Marines.

it's exactly what I wrote: Dillon and Walsh were Brigadier General and Lieutenant general, which are not French Navy Grade but Infantery Grades.

Compagnies Franches de Marine were disbanded in 1761. fourteen years before American revolution,
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  #38  
Old 11 Nov 16, 12:36
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Just for information purposes, there were originally six Irish regiments in the French service. By 1791 they had dwindled to three: Dillon (87th), Berwick (88th), and Walsh (92d). All were regular line infantry regiments.
the six Irish regiment formed the Irish Brigade they were

Rooth's regiments

Berwick's regiment

Bulkeley's regiment

Clare's regiment

Dillon's regiment

Lally's regiment

in 1775 after several restructuration they were only three Irish regiment :

Walsh's regiment merged of Rooth et Roscommon's Regiment

Dillon's regiment with the absorbtion of Lally et Bulkeley Regiment.

Berwick's regiment with the absorbtion of Clare's regiment
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  #39  
Old 11 Nov 16, 12:43
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His advisors got him to pull back to fight George's army in Scotland to give him shorter supply lines and more reinforcements. It was quite a good suggestion. The expected crowds of English Jacobite recruits hadn't materialised. They expected that the traditional Scottish battle cry of "The English are coming!" would rally Scottish support even from the waiverers, the Scots do not exactly have fond memories of previous English visits.
While it's true that English Jacobite support never materialized in real numbers, and a withdrawal back to Scotland would have shortened the Jacobites' line of communications, taking London would have hobbled the Hanoverians, both politically and economically. While Jacobite support was at best only sporadic, Hanover support wasn't much better. I'm left with the impression that most English supported stability first and foremost, and had the Hanoverians been handed a strategic loss, they might have easily swung over to the side they viewed as the eventual winner. Maybe this should move on over to the alternate timeline forum, but I definitely believe that had Charlie taken London, the Hanoverians might not have recovered.

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According to at least one account by a Scottish nobleman and professional soldier who accompanied the advance into England the Prince listened too much to the advice of the Irish contingent and interfered too much so that the force took very slow routes and lost considerable time allowing government forces to rally and position them selves. "If the Prince had just gone to sleep he could have awakened on the throne in London" was his comment. I once walked part of the Scottish army's route through the peak district (impossible to do now as a valley has been flooded for a reservoir). It was difficult going even for a single rambler. I discovered later that the army's guide for that part of the march was an English exile whose mother's house was at the foot of the valley so he had presumably detoured to pay a visit! ("hi mum, I've just popped in - with a few friends" as hairy breeked Highlanders peered in the windows).The whole thing was to say the least amateurish.
Yeah, Charlie wasn't much of a tactical officer, was he. Wasn't much of an operational officer either. Maybe he was Haig's ancestor. Rimshot.

That tome to which I linked earlier describes various comments by one of Charlie's Irish aides to the effect that every time the clan chieftains questioned one of the Bonnie Prince's bolder notions, this Mick derided the Jocks as little more than fair-weather friends. The two instances that stuck in my mind were on the eve of Prestonpans, and a year later just a wee bit north of London. The first time the Irishman's boldness was vindicated; the second time the chieftains wouldn't hear him at all.

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However even if he had reached London it was clear that there was no English popular support for the Stuart dynasty and he wouldn't have been able to hold the throne so there was no point in continuing.
London is Britain's city. Indeed, London is really the only city of note within the whole of the British Isles. London is to Britain what Paris is to France, or Moscow is to Russia. London is, and was, the lynchpin to Britain's political functioning, and her economic existence. London is the axle around which the British wheel turns. Had Charlie taken London, I dare say that he would have had the Hanoverians over a barrel, and a good deal of English support might have materialized as if by magic: the appearance of imminent victory has a tendency to do that.

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An interesting side note. The army passed an inn in Cheshire at Hale called The Bleeding Wolf. Its landlord was lauded as a hero for ambushing two Scots soldiers and slitting their throats. He was hanged a few years later as it turned out that he just happened to enjoy slitting throats and a number of wayfarers vanished in the vicinity of his inn.
Today's patriot is tomorrow's homicidal maniac.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 12:48
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Officers belonging to Jacobite Families during American revolution


they were nearly a hundred and the most famous families were:

Dillon's family
Mac Carthy's family
Mac Mahon's family who gave the second president of the french republic Patrick MacMahon
O’Brien's family
O’Connor's family
O’Moran's family
Lynch's family who gave one of the great Bordeaux wine Chateau Lynch Bages
Macdonald's family who gave one Marshall to Napoleon, Etienne Mac Donald
Kilmaine's family who gave one general to the French Revolution, Charles Édouard Jennings de Kilmaine
Walsh's family
O’Farell's family
O’Mahony's family
d’Arcy's family
Plunkett's family
Keating's family
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Old 11 Nov 16, 13:10
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Et voilà I have Finsihed fermez le banc
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à vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire (triumph without peril brings no glory) P. Corneille

Le probleme avec les cons, c'est qu'il ne se fatiguent jamais
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Old 11 Nov 16, 20:56
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The Walsh's Regiment


This Regiment was Under command of the Vicomte de Walsh Serrant.



The Flag: is a cross of St George with a white border symbolising the service of the French king and the Stuart family


With few exceptions, the French infantry flags of the old Royal Army all had a central cross which divided the flag into four cantons. The six, and later three, Irish regiments all had flags of that general pattern. And each regiment had two flags, the colonel's, which was all white with the white central cross outlined by stitching, and the ordonnance, or regimental color, in the units distinctive colored cantons.

The Irish regiments did have a red central cross, but the royal, or king's, color had a white one as did the other infantry regiments.

See French Infantry Flags: From 1786 to the end of the First Empire by Ludovic Letrun.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 21:31
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Units hang onto their flag's - its traditional
But I can't see that the Stuarts would be particularly associated with the Red Cross of St George: the white cross saltire on a blue background: the flag of St.Andrew, would seem to be more appropriate.
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