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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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Old 11 Nov 16, 05:41
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
a strange turn of events. - they were not natural republicans.
Yes Catholics Royalists serving Protestants Republicans is quite funny.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 06:00
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Yes Catholics Royalists serving Protestants Republicans is quite funny.
When did they do that? Britain was not a republic. What they objected to was serving a republic with atheistic tendencies. Britain was at least a monarchy and more or less Christian even if protestant. Moreover one of Britain's stated war aims was the restoration of the French monarchy. Their oaths were to the French crown not a French republic. Even if it meant serving with the old enemy they were prepared to do so. Wellington thought highly of them.

Napoleon used the remnants of the 3rd btn to try and form the core of his Irish legion, recruiting the rest from Irish PoWs from the British forces (much as Casement was to try more than 100 years later - and with no more success). He ended up having to fill the gaps with Neapolitans many of whom were serial deserters
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Old 11 Nov 16, 06:05
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The Dillon's Regiment

This Regiment was Under command of the Arthur Dillon (1750 1794) guillotined during Terror regime.







The Flag: is a cross of St George with a white border, the Celtic Harp, the old motto used by the Glorious Knights Templar In Hoc Signo Vinces (In this sign thou shalt conquer) and crowns symbolising French and English Monarchy.

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Old 11 Nov 16, 06:09
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Since James I the Stuarts were extremely keen on a United kingdom with themselves on the throne in London. Indeed the first attempts to get the UK legalised were made by James but rebuffed by the English parliament in Westminster who regarded most of Scotland as an uncouth nation of ne'er-do-wells who would be a drain on the public purse. Scotland was seen as a sort of Afghanistan. James I was only accepted as King as it seemed preferable to a civil war over the succession. For this reason the Stuarts placed considerable emphasis on their English crown. It's a nationalist myth (and one repeated on the Beeb this morning) that the 15 and the 45 were all about Scottish independence. The not so bonnie alcoholic Prince Charlie wanted to get his royal posterior very firmly on the English throne and I suspect that if the price of that was ditching Scotland he might have been very mildly sentimental about it (especially if he'd had a drop or six) but he'd have taken it like a shot.
According to this bloke, the real goal of the '45 was always London: being a Stuart, Charlie always knew to go after the money. That he failed to pull it off, however, was never adequately explained.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 07:17
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According to this bloke, the real goal of the '45 was always London: being a Stuart, Charlie always knew to go after the money. That he failed to pull it off, however, was never adequately explained.
His advisors got him to pull back to fight George's army in Scotland to give him shorter supply lines and more reinforcements. It was quite a good suggestion. The expected crowds of English Jacobite recruits hadn't materialised. They expected that the traditional Scottish battle cry of "The English are coming!" would rally Scottish support even from the waiverers, the Scots do not exactly have fond memories of previous English visits.

The problem was that they were all in their little bubble feeding each other what they wanted to hear. Scottish support was not ever 100% for the uprising. Even in the Highlands an area traditionally pro Stuart were ambivalent although many of them kept the faith and went.

The Lowlands, where the money was, seem to have been either pro hanovarian or anti Stuart. If you look at Culloden there are more Scottish troops on the Government side then Charlie's. So he pulls back and history takes over.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 07:47
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According to at least one account by a Scottish nobleman and professional soldier who accompanied the advance into England the Prince listened too much to the advice of the Irish contingent and interfered too much so that the force took very slow routes and lost considerable time allowing government forces to rally and position them selves. "If the Prince had just gone to sleep he could have awakened on the throne in London" was his comment. I once walked part of the Scottish army's route through the peak district (impossible to do now as a valley has been flooded for a reservoir). It was difficult going even for a single rambler. I discovered later that the army's guide for that part of the march was an English exile whose mother's house was at the foot of the valley so he had presumably detoured to pay a visit! ("hi mum, I've just popped in - with a few friends" as hairy breeked Highlanders peered in the windows).The whole thing was to say the least amateurish.

However even if he had reached London it was clear that there was no English popular support for the Stuart dynasty and he wouldn't have been able to hold the throne so there was no point in continuing.

An interesting side note. The army passed an inn in Cheshire at Hale called The Bleeding Wolf. Its landlord was lauded as a hero for ambushing two Scots soldiers and slitting their throats. He was hanged a few years later as it turned out that he just happened to enjoy slitting throats and a number of wayfarers vanished in the vicinity of his inn.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 07:49
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Quote:
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May be it's a question of terminology, in 1622 Cardinal de Richilieu created 100 compagnies ordinaires de la mer, later on Colbert in 1699 created 2 régiments, the régiment royal-marine and the régiment de l'Amiral, known as Compagnies Franches de la Marine. they were infantry units attached to the Marine Royale, and used for overseas operations, which is BTW the purpose of all Marine Corps (NB: Marine and Corps are two french words, Marine meaning Navy and Corps Meaning Unit).




Fort de Chartres IL, reenactment with Compagnie Franche de la Marine.
Both Great Britain and the United States had a specifically organized Marine Corps and France did not. The French had naval troops, but they weren't Marines in the sense that those of the British and Americans were.

For example, Lauzan's Legion that served with Rochambeau in North America were naval troops, in that they belonged to the French Navy. They were in no sense Marines comparable to the British and American Marines.

And the French term Marin, means sailor, not the English language equivalent Marine.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:25
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Both Great Britain and the United States had a specifically organized Marine Corps and France did not. The French had naval troops, but they weren't Marines in the sense that those of the British and Americans were.

For example, Lauzan's Legion that served with Rochambeau in North America were naval troops, in that they belonged to the French Navy. They were in no sense Marines comparable to the British and American Marines.

And the French term Marin, means sailor, not the English language equivalent Marine.
Excuse me to fully disagree with you, being French, I know the difference between Marin and Marine, Compagnies Franches de Marine were not Marins but Infantery Troops use for overseas operation and attached to Marine Royale. anyway they were disbanded in 1761. It's the Anglos who Qualified their Regiments Marine Corps using the French term and not the other way round. Dillon and Walsh were Brigadier General and Lieutenant general, which are not French Navy Grade but Infantery Grades. Even if they were not Organized in an Independent Corps, they still were Marine Troops.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:29
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The Dutch and Russians also had 'proper' marines
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:44
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The first marines were formed as the Spanish Infantería de Armada in 1537. Soldiers had of course served on ships before, especially the galleys but this was the first amphibious force capable of landings in force against opposition. In 1704 it became known as the Cuerpo de Batallones de Marina
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:46
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Dillon's regiment Feat of arms:

conquest of Grenada
siege of Savannah,
conquest of Tobago
conquest of Saint-Eustache
conquest of Saint-Christophe
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:49
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Dillon's regiment Feat of arms:

conquest of Grenada
siege of Savannah,
conquest of Tobago
conquest of Saint-Eustache
conquest of Saint-Christophe
And The Battle of Alexandria 1801 - a real amphibious operation and the largest one until Gallipoli
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:52
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When did they do that? Britain was not a republic. What they objected to was serving a republic with atheistic tendencies. Britain was at least a monarchy and more or less Christian even if protestant. Moreover one of Britain's stated war aims was the restoration of the French monarchy. Their oaths were to the French crown not a French republic. Even if it meant serving with the old enemy they were prepared to do so. Wellington thought highly of them.

Napoleon used the remnants of the 3rd btn to try and form the core of his Irish legion, recruiting the rest from Irish PoWs from the British forces (much as Casement was to try more than 100 years later - and with no more success). He ended up having to fill the gaps with Neapolitans many of whom were serial deserters
I am talking about American revolution not After
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:53
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Quote:
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And The Battle of Alexandria 1801 - a real amphibious operation and the largest one until Gallipoli
I am talkig only about American Revolution not After.
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Old 11 Nov 16, 08:56
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I am talking about American revolution not After
Well say so in your post title and not just
Quote:
Dillon's regiment Feat of arms
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