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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Military/History Related Hobbies > Alternate Timelines > Science Fiction

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Science Fiction Science Fiction as a means to discuss "future history."

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  #16  
Old 12 Sep 16, 18:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
So much woo.
One person's "woo" is another's truth.
Take religions for one example.
Then there's the "believer's" that a small increase of atmospheric CO2 caused by humans is the main driver of (Anthropogenic) Climate Change/Global Warming.
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  #17  
Old 13 Sep 16, 10:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Isn't it funny that the Galaxy is populated by bipedal, two armed intelligent creatures?
IIRC there was a ST:TNG episode that explained this. It was an interstellar archeological hunt that resulted in a message from a progenitor race that revealed that this sector of the galaxy was seeded by them.

Also are you forgetting that silicon based lifeform on the mining colony in TOS? Or the crystaline entity from TNG? Or the various energy beings encountered?
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  #18  
Old 13 Sep 16, 11:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
The original Star Trek. Many of the episodes are variants of ones Lost in Space did.

Star Wars was predictable Saturday morning matinee stuff. Lucas might be a genus at special effects but he's an execrable story writer.

What worked for Star Trek was the right amount of special effects with a decent storyline for each episode, and a cast that had some chemistry. Lost in Space was just a bit too early to really have the special effects and budget necessary to pull of a good sci-fi show. That, and the characters weren't as engaging. Doctor Smith should have been killed off early and the problems posed becoming between the crew and "outsiders / Aliens" as with Star Trek.
Lucas can be great - but not solo. His work on Indiana Jones and the original Star Wars movies were great, but they were always tempered by the presence of others (other directors, writers, etc.) which tempered his output. Even his writing and directing experience on episode 4 was restricted by his expectations and the more understated goals (and budget).

Simply put, his output is best when he works with people who can and will tell him no. The prequels are a perfect example of what happens when someone with some talent loses the influence of people keeping him grounded.
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  #19  
Old 13 Sep 16, 11:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
One person's "woo" is another's truth.
No, it's still woo.
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  #20  
Old 13 Sep 16, 11:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
No, it's still woo.
As often, you miss the point.

"Another person's truth" doesn't mean "truth" in any absolute or objective sense.

We're engaged in a decades old global conflict because Islamic Fundamentalists see the "woo" of their religion as a "truth" to impose upon all others.

Makes them sort of like the ones who decades ago said the planet was cooling towards an "ice age" and now use the same "data" manipulated, to claim "Global Warming"/"Climate Change" and try to use their "woo" to force economic, industrial and cultural change upon the rest of us.
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  #21  
Old 13 Sep 16, 16:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
As often, you miss the point.

"Another person's truth" doesn't mean "truth" in any absolute or objective sense.

We're engaged in a decades old global conflict because Islamic Fundamentalists see the "woo" of their religion as a "truth" to impose upon all others.

Makes them sort of like the ones who decades ago said the planet was cooling towards an "ice age" and now use the same "data" manipulated, to claim "Global Warming"/"Climate Change" and try to use their "woo" to force economic, industrial and cultural change upon the rest of us.
I think there are many varieties of woo as you have just demonstrated.
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  #22  
Old 13 Sep 16, 18:16
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Just watched two DS9 episodes on tele. Garak was the main character, and the episodes were Improbable Cause and The Die is Cast. These were superior episodes, ones that kept me watching DS9 first time round, when the generally far superior Babylon 5 was also being aired.
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  #23  
Old 29 Aug 17, 15:16
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Good place for this ...
Time for one last shot at this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4KBPaS-1PU


http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=139
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  #24  
Old 31 Aug 17, 11:19
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...I go to the library often for books and DVDs
Star Wars and Star Trek have, by far, the most DVD collections.....a very popular genre ..why? escapism?
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  #25  
Old 31 Aug 17, 11:31
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Timing.
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  #26  
Old 31 Aug 17, 11:57
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I was a huge fan of science fiction, so I never really cared for the original series. Next Gen. was better at that, but Q annoyed me enough to rarely watch it.
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  #27  
Old 31 Aug 17, 12:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin View Post
...I go to the library often for books and DVDs
Star Wars and Star Trek have, by far, the most DVD collections.....a very popular genre ..why? escapism?
Optimisim might be the better reason.

Star Trek appears years before we've even landed a man on the Moon, during the earlier orbital missions of both the USA and USSR, so "Space" was a hot topic then. In the wake of other TV sci-fi shows such as Twilight Zone, One Step Beyond, and Outer Limits, Star Trek, presented a concept and storyline continuity that resonated with the times. As the series evolved into other incarnations, the subtext suggested in the youtube link a few posts above began to be more obvious.

Star Wars built upon that public interest in a future among the stars for humankind as well as providing a more complex and involved vision of inter-stellar politics and lifestyles. SW also pushed the envelope of special effects giving it more cache'.

Both genres appeal to basic human traits for exploration and adventure while offerring a more open context to explore and examine the nuances of being human and how such might play out with other species/races of beings when that future arrives.
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  #28  
Old 01 Sep 17, 10:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Optimisim might be the better reason.

Star Trek appears years before we've even landed a man on the Moon, during the earlier orbital missions of both the USA and USSR, so "Space" was a hot topic then. In the wake of other TV sci-fi shows such as Twilight Zone, One Step Beyond, and Outer Limits, Star Trek, presented a concept and storyline continuity that resonated with the times. As the series evolved into other incarnations, the subtext suggested in the youtube link a few posts above began to be more obvious.

Star Wars built upon that public interest in a future among the stars for humankind as well as providing a more complex and involved vision of inter-stellar politics and lifestyles. SW also pushed the envelope of special effects giving it more cache'.

Both genres appeal to basic human traits for exploration and adventure while offerring a more open context to explore and examine the nuances of being human and how such might play out with other species/races of beings when that future arrives.
Optimism is a good summary.

Both Star Trek and Star Wars were very much a part of an optimistic look at the world, whether it was Trek's absolute belief in the benefits of technology and the innate goodness in humanity, or Wars' use of universal themes to create a very broad message of good versus evil within a galaxy full of wonder.

One must also compare them to their time periods. Trek came out when the Cold War was reaching a very dark place and the idea that we were set to kill ourselves with our technological creations was real. Wars came out during Vietnam, when distrust and anger were on the rise and people - especially youngsters - felt their world falling apart around them.

Both of these series' - especially Trek, through - are imbued with a very enticing sense of optimism and hope, which is a perennially favorite theme.
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  #29  
Old 01 Sep 17, 11:18
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I thought I read many times Star Trek was supposed to be a space version of Wagon Train...?
by the way, my favorite episode is probably The Doomsday Machine followed by Arena
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  #30  
Old 01 Sep 17, 16:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
Optimism is a good summary.

Both Star Trek and Star Wars were very much a part of an optimistic look at the world, whether it was Trek's absolute belief in the benefits of technology and the innate goodness in humanity, or Wars' use of universal themes to create a very broad message of good versus evil within a galaxy full of wonder.
I've always seen the two as quite different.

Star Trek (STTOS) had a mix of Twilight Zone settings and typical Western TV show plots of the period going in it. The crew each episode ended up somewhere facing some sort of injustice, evil, etc., and Kirk (as the Marshall / Sheriff), who you know full well won't lose, would kick it's @$$ with his posse and get the girl, after which everybody lived happily until next week's episode.

Star Wars on the other hand was good vs evil Saturday afternoon movie matinee stuff. The hero is an underdog, the bad guys seemingly all-powerful. It's Indiana Jones only not as good and with tons more special effects. Of course, for the 12 to 20 male bunch the special effects, lots of explosions, and whup whup, light saber duels is more than enough wow factor to keep them coming back and drag their poor girlfriend along... assuming they have one...
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