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  #31  
Old 29 Oct 16, 04:15
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
In "The Martian" movie the ambient temperature killed all the bacteria Mark had harvested from the "waste" stored carefully away*. Would Earthly bacteria survive "in the wild" on Mars?

*Andy Weir never explained how the sealed envelopes hold the feces allowed the bacteria to survive when the waste was stored outside the HAB.
Certainly some of the trillions of bacteria of a variety of species will survive...
http://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/microbiota

At least 1/2 the DNA in a human is virus or bacteria.

"Studies have found bacteria in areas previously thought to be completely sterile. A broad diversity of bacteria were found at all of the “clean rooms” where NASA spacecraft are assembled and in spite of the highly desiccated, nutrient-bare conditions within."

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  #32  
Old 29 Oct 16, 09:13
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How would they "certainly survive", please? I think -40F is pretty egalitarian.
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  #33  
Old 29 Oct 16, 15:22
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The 'igloo' that could be man's first home on Mars: National Geographic's stunning miniseries reveal what first habitat on another planet could look like

  • National Geographic's show interviewed dozens of experts, including Elon Musk
  • Designed all of the technology to what is expected to be available within five years
  • Show will mix interviews with experts with a scripted element showing a first mission to Mars
  • Show will air on 13th November at 9pm on National Geographic
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...look-like.html
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  #34  
Old 30 Oct 16, 02:10
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How close are we to sending humans to Mars?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techno...Psk?li=BBnbfcL
EXCERPT:
...
While experts like Zubrin say that our technology may soon be ready for a trip to Mars, others are mulling another crucial aspect of the mission: Are we ready to live on the Red Planet? Sheyna Gifford, now a scientist at the Saint Louis Science Center, was a medical officer on HI-SEAS, NASA’s yearlong simulated mission to Mars. She says that colonizing a new planet will be exhausting work.

“If you thought owning a house on Earth was a time suck, try owning a house in space,” Gifford says. “Everything takes longer because half the time, you don't have what you need and running to the corner store is not an option. So you either have to 'science it,' or 3-D print it, or invent it.”

And while a Mars colony would eventually have enough people to provide “backup” for all the work to be done, crew members on the first few Mars missions won’t have that luxury.

“We were at work for 366 days straight … and that's a problem,” Gifford says. “Humans need a break. Unfortunately, you still have to get up and water the crops and check the computer system, make sure the air compressors and filters are working. There's no way to take a break. At the same time, you must. And this is one of these questions we have to answer before we go [to Mars], even if the technical ones are solved.”
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  #35  
Old 30 Oct 16, 15:43
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  #36  
Old 30 Oct 16, 16:05
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  #37  
Old 05 Nov 16, 22:47
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One problem solved

Mars has no magnetic field? No biggie. We already manufacture enough cable to circle the Earth a couple of times over every year. This is entirely current tech. With no oceans, plate tectonics, or lawyers laying cable on Mars should be pretty straight forward.

Performance is not an issue. Any metal we can extract from Martian minerals with the minimum energy expenditure should be fine. The cable doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to conduct electricity. Take the plans for the simplest cable maker that will work and build it on site.

Keep the left over silicon for solar cells to energize the cable. If your 3D printer (or nanobots) can make it out of Fullerenes, so much the better.
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  #38  
Old 10 Nov 16, 17:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Mars has no magnetic field? No biggie. We already manufacture enough cable to circle the Earth a couple of times over every year. This is entirely current tech. With no oceans, plate tectonics, or lawyers laying cable on Mars should be pretty straight forward.

Performance is not an issue. Any metal we can extract from Martian minerals with the minimum energy expenditure should be fine. The cable doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to conduct electricity. Take the plans for the simplest cable maker that will work and build it on site.

Keep the left over silicon for solar cells to energize the cable. If your 3D printer (or nanobots) can make it out of Fullerenes, so much the better.
Except that a little factor called "electrical resistance" takes over, being a function of the length of any conductive wire, and while you might manage to create a small magnetic field along the length of the cables, the amount of power needed to magnetize the entire planet would burn out everything long before you reached the necessary levels to begin with, and you have to succeed in magnetizing the entire planet in order to retain a planetary atmosphere.

And yes, such cables would have to be perfect, or they would burn up even faster. We already know this from high voltage power transmission right here on Earth. Flaws cause hot spots.

Humans, BTW, often react badly to being in close proximity to highly magnetic fields.

Best bet - enclosed spaces that will retain sufficient Earth-type atmosphere.

There is a very good reason why Terraforming is science fiction.

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  #39  
Old 10 Nov 16, 18:00
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Quote:
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There is a very good reason why Terraforming is science fiction.

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  #40  
Old 18 Nov 16, 04:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Except that a little factor called "electrical resistance" takes over, being a function of the length of any conductive wire, and while you might manage to create a small magnetic field along the length of the cables, the amount of power needed to magnetize the entire planet would burn out everything long before you reached the necessary levels to begin with, and you have to succeed in magnetizing the entire planet in order to retain a planetary atmosphere.

And yes, such cables would have to be perfect, or they would burn up even faster. We already know this from high voltage power transmission right here on Earth. Flaws cause hot spots.

Humans, BTW, often react badly to being in close proximity to highly magnetic fields.

Best bet - enclosed spaces that will retain sufficient Earth-type atmosphere.

There is a very good reason why Terraforming is science fiction.

Making a significant planet sized magnetic field (or other forms of Terraforming) is far beyond the scope of human technology!


However, the supposed "longterm" adverse effects of AC or DC electric and/or magnetic fields on humans has never been demonstrated.

I was even involved is such tests on lab rats back in the late 1980's. High A/C electric fields did effect the rats as they went into "corona discharge".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

They became passive and catatonic. However, once the field was removed they resorted to normal behavior and had no indication of lasting effect as per maze tests etc.

The best way to protect humans on other terrestrial objects is to live underground and use dirt/rock as shielding to protect us from Solar and Cosmic radiation.
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  #41  
Old 18 Nov 16, 14:19
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If we have to live underground why bother going? Find a nice exhausted salt mine here and enjoy.Other questions still to be answered
  • How well, or otherwise, does the human physiology adapt to much lower gravity? I know my worn out knees and lower back would love it but I suspect I'm not good colonist material
  • Can we adapt to a very different day night cycle?. Other than living down a deep dark ho;e with artificial light (and again why bother going?)
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  #42  
Old 18 Nov 16, 14:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
If we have to live underground why bother going? Find a nice exhausted salt mine here and enjoy.
We live in upholstered caves as it is.
Quote:
Other questions still to be answered
  • How well, or otherwise, does the human physiology adapt to much lower gravity? I know my worn out knees and lower back would love it but I suspect I'm not good colonist material
  • We survived coming down out of the trees.
    Quote:
  • Can we adapt to a very different day night cycle?. Other than living down a deep dark ho;e with artificial light (and again why bother going?)
It's easier to adapt to a longer day than a shorter one according to the studies I've seen. But look at it this way, an extra 20 minutes of day and an extra 20 minutes of sleep. Nothing hard about that.
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  #43  
Old 18 Nov 16, 14:51
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
We live in upholstered caves as it is. We survived coming down out of the trees.
Our upholsterered caves have windows. But you make my point why go to different ubupholstered caves?

We've never had to deal with a different gravity
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Old 18 Nov 16, 15:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
Our upholsterered caves have windows. But you make my point why go to different ubupholstered caves?
I'll tell Columbus to give your berth to another guy.
Quote:
We've never had to deal with a different gravity
And? When we came down out of the trees we didn't have gene splicing.

Well, I didn't.
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Old 19 Nov 16, 16:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCoyote View Post
Mars has no magnetic field? No biggie. We already manufacture enough cable to circle the Earth a couple of times over every year. This is entirely current tech. With no oceans, plate tectonics, or lawyers laying cable on Mars should be pretty straight forward.

Performance is not an issue. Any metal we can extract from Martian minerals with the minimum energy expenditure should be fine. The cable doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to conduct electricity. Take the plans for the simplest cable maker that will work and build it on site.

Keep the left over silicon for solar cells to energize the cable. If your 3D printer (or nanobots) can make it out of Fullerenes, so much the better.
You don't even need to do the whole planet. Just put a field around the area you are living in.
Back in WW 2 one of the crazier things proposed by the Allies to counter V-1's was to do just that. The proposal was to connect up mostly existing rail lines around London with some additional track to form a 60 mile circle around the city. This would have 1000 amps DC run through it requiring about 20 to 30 MW of total power. The resulting magnetic field would be sufficient to throw the magnetic compass used in a V-1 off and cause it to crash.
So, it would be possible to produce a large magnetic field that would protect a small city and surrounding land. Let's say 50 MW. That's doable on solar and wind most likely.
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