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American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion Military history of North America. .

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  #31  
Old 07 Nov 16, 18:23
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I have seen estimates of the Native American population in California as high as one million. There were more family groups of languages in California than the rest of the country. To be fair, the plagues of diseases swept through California several times before the Spanish got there. These epidemics started when Native populations began to have contact with European sailors. The Cortez expedition introduced Smallpox (actually one Narvaez's men) and a host of other "children's diseases". The natives had no immunity and died terribly.

California was a paradise to the Native Americans. The climate was mild. The Oak and Pinon Pines provided seeds that could be ground to flour. The Salmon visited some of the Rivers in such numbers that the harvest lasted much of the year. Then you had native game. The marshes of the Sacremento River are still some of the best duck hunting in America. The coastal groups could also fish and harvest seaweed. Once the Spanish Feral Cattle expanded into the state the local Grizzlies grew to be known as the biggest in America. You did have to suffer the occasional drought, but if one area exhausted its resources, the clan could move its base.

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  #32  
Old 07 Nov 16, 18:51
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Simple ...

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Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
What happened to the Erie Tribe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_people
... they became Haudenosaunee, what the Five Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy went by. During this period, many First Nations were suffering the effects of European diseases, for which they had little immunity; their numbers went down drastically. The Haudenosaunee suffered like the others, their response was to make captives of some of their enemies, and absorb them into their tribes to keep their numbers up. They were arguably the most successful tribes at the process. The once substantial Erie, Neutral, Petun and Wendat peoples were gutted by disease and war, but as captives they had an advantage, they already spoke Iroquoian languages.
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  #33  
Old 08 Nov 16, 17:32
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For the most part the NA were still living in the stone age, advanced stone age perhaps but nothing compared to Asia and Europe or even Egypt.
this a a great, important point that is rarely mentioned.......the NAs were defeated and conquered--plain and simple.....just like thousands of other 'tribes'/peoples....... goes in hand with the point of their lack of technology/etc did not give them the ability to conquer and commit genocide on the scale of that Europeans did....not that they didn't have the will for it
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  #34  
Old 08 Nov 16, 18:02
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It might depend on what you call civilized. In Teotihuacan, the Aztecs had flush toilets. The Spanish could not watch them operate often enough. Unfortunately the Spanish tore the city down and destroyed the toilets and sewer lines. One of the Aztec enemies had bronze which they made weapons and tools from. The Inca had a wonderful road system and a series of runners who would bring messages from city to city. This is one reason the Great Inca wanted Royal Roads so he could communicate with his people. The Maya had a written language and a sophisticated astronomical science.

The European disease epidemics also destroyed many civilizations before Europeans got there.

Many Native American civilizations reached an epic level and then declined. Some were able to recover and some did not.

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  #35  
Old 09 Nov 16, 09:04
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
It might depend on what you call civilized. In Teotihuacan, the Aztecs had flush toilets. The Spanish could not watch them operate often enough. Unfortunately the Spanish tore the city down and destroyed the toilets and sewer lines. One of the Aztec enemies had bronze which they made weapons and tools from. The Inca had a wonderful road system and a series of runners who would bring messages from city to city. This is one reason the Great Inca wanted Royal Roads so he could communicate with his people. The Maya had a written language and a sophisticated astronomical science.

The European disease epidemics also destroyed many civilizations before Europeans got there.

Many Native American civilizations reached an epic level and then declined. Some were able to recover and some did not.

Pruitt
The Aztecs were also fierce warriors, they were of course a warrior tribe seeking to conquer other lands. The Aztecs were brilliant...in fact Hernan Cortes viewed the Aztecs as rationale people and suggested that Aztec land was the most richest and beautiful in the world.




We do not know exactly why a fight broke out in Tenochtitlan between the Aztecs and the Spaniards but what we do know is eventually there was to be a war fought between the Aztecs and the Spaniards(and there native allies) with the Spaniards and its allies coming out on top as the victor. I would not use language such as The Spanish tore down or that Aztecs practiced barbaric rituals...both the Aztecs and Spaniards were beautiful people...they helped to shape the very world we live in today. The Day of the dead for example Pruitt...its a celebration of the legacy of the Aztecs and Spanish explorers.
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  #36  
Old 10 Nov 16, 14:18
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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
... I would not use language such as The Spanish tore down or that Aztecs practiced barbaric rituals...both the Aztecs and Spaniards were beautiful people...they helped to shape the very world we live in today. The Day of the dead for example Pruitt...its a celebration of the legacy of the Aztecs and Spanish explorers.
Whoa...


I have to disagree there, even on the most basic grounds of aesthetics.

Aztec art isn't just ugly to me, it is hideous. Grim celebrations of the grotesque is all I see there. Granted, its a subjective thing to say, but what isn't subjectives is how they practiced self-mutilation and how even the Emperor would publicly carve on himself for certain ceremonies.
Their standards of "beauty" leaves me shaking my head, their women would tie boards to their baby girl's heads to ensure that their forehead sloped back at the same angle as their nose... and to go really high-fashion they would have feathers hung before their eyes so they would become cross-eyed for life.
I mean... day-um!

Not that the Spanish were any prize; The Spanish court at that time were known for being uniformly drab and dark, another aspect of absolute religious fanaticism. The land of the Inquisition imported little aside from bullion from the New World (later Colonialists would make themselves richer from fruit and tobacco) and used the money to fund their abortive attempts to conquer the rest of Europe.
The aristocrats did so little for Spain itself that the country is now one of the most impoverished and backwards of any of the major European nations.

Talk about a lose-lose situation...
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  #37  
Old 10 Nov 16, 14:56
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Whoa...


I have to disagree there, even on the most basic grounds of aesthetics.

Aztec art isn't just ugly to me, it is hideous. Grim celebrations of the grotesque is all I see there. Granted, its a subjective thing to say, but what isn't subjectives is how they practiced self-mutilation and how even the Emperor would publicly carve on himself for certain ceremonies.
Their standards of "beauty" leaves me shaking my head, their women would tie boards to their baby girl's heads to ensure that their forehead sloped back at the same angle as their nose... and to go really high-fashion they would have feathers hung before their eyes so they would become cross-eyed for life.
I mean... day-um!

Not that the Spanish were any prize; The Spanish court at that time were known for being uniformly drab and dark, another aspect of absolute religious fanaticism. The land of the Inquisition imported little aside from bullion from the New World (later Colonialists would make themselves richer from fruit and tobacco) and used the money to fund their abortive attempts to conquer the rest of Europe.
The aristocrats did so little for Spain itself that the country is now one of the most impoverished and backwards of any of the major European nations.

Talk about a lose-lose situation...
Firstly, during even the 16th century the Spaniards were very much into fashion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1550%E...ropean_fashion

There was a difference though between the so called New Spain and Spain btw. Spain could not have full control over the so called New world being that Spain was a very long distance from the New world.

Without a doubt some of the Spanish side upon entering the city of Veracruz....were blown away by the engineering ability of the Aztecs. As Pruitt pointed out the Aztecs had flushing water. As I pointed out Hernan Cortes praised the Aztecs as rationale people. Now I believe that it would be unfair to criticize the Aztecs due to the human sacrifice when today we have folks who love and cherish the Roman Empire and the Mongol Empire. Well we know that Romans and Mongols were not pacifists so why then should I have a critical view of the Aztecs. I wont overtly criticize the Aztecs, and I wont overtly criticize the Spanish empire...in fact I admire both the Spanish Empire as well as the Aztec Empire.

Speaking of relations between Europeans and the various tribes of the Americas,


...Off the coast of North America Sir Francis Drake of England meet with and took up friendships with so called Native Americans. There is much much more to the picture of the New world then blood and barbarism. Source----> https://youtu.be/w3gYjUtyRwA?t=22m40s
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Old 16 Nov 16, 13:30
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...'''''they helped to shape the very world we live in today. The Day of the dead for example Pruitt...its a celebration of the legacy of the Aztecs and Spanish explorers.[/QUOTE]''''

how did the Aztecs help shape the world we live in today? examples, etc? thanks any replies
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Old 16 Nov 16, 14:28
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...'''''they helped to shape the very world we live in today. The Day of the dead for example Pruitt...its a celebration of the legacy of the Aztecs and Spanish explorers.

how did the Aztecs help shape the world we live in today? examples, etc? thanks any replies

The fact that one of the greatest explorers and leaders of all time....Hernan Cortes...said that the Aztecs were rational people and that the Aztec land was the most beautful and richest land there ever was....is the answer to your question.
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  #40  
Old 16 Nov 16, 14:38
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The real problem with the treatment of Native Americans is not who they killed, but the cases where they didn't kill enough.

The Comanche, for example. And the Sioux could have used some additional thinning out.

And all the tribes east of the Miss and west of the Rockies.

And the Apache, too. Anyone who eats horses should have gotten a .45-45 or .45-70 post haste.
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Old 16 Nov 16, 16:52
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The fact that one of the greatest explorers and leaders of all time....Hernan Cortes...said that the Aztecs were rational people and that the Aztec land was the most beautful and richest land there ever was....is the answer to your question.
I don't see any thing closely related to Aztec here in mid America...I see a lot of German culture, language, etc
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Old 16 Nov 16, 18:13
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I don't see any thing closely related to Aztec here in mid America...I see a lot of German culture, language, etc
Well the Aztec had flush toilets in the 16th century. Bet the Spaniards were impressed by that.
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Old 16 Nov 16, 18:29
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Not so sure, ...

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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Well the Aztec had flush toilets in the 16th century. Bet the Spaniards were impressed by that.
... the Spaniards still don't have flush toilets, no big deal🤷.
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Old 16 Nov 16, 18:49
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how did the Aztecs help shape the world we live in today? examples, etc? thanks any replies
We had a guy who was carving out people's hearts in the Houston area some years ago. He's dead now, but it is possible he was inspired by the Aztecs.
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Old 16 Nov 16, 19:31
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I'm think'in ...

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We had a guy who was carving out people's hearts in the Houston area some years ago. He's dead now, but it is possible he was inspired by the Aztecs.
... this fella was one of the mobile home, non-flush toilet Aztecs?
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