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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Africa

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Africa Issues of modern Africa.

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  #1  
Old 15 May 16, 18:19
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Conversation: France's Ties to Africa

A quick intro to the topic.
Only about five minutes long.
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  #2  
Old 30 May 16, 13:54
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Well, it is a brief introduction, however they could at least have mentioned France's role in the West and Central African Franc zones, the size and duration of normal French troop rotations into and out of the region, and the size and composition of French contingency forces earmarked for the region, perhaps with an assessment of time it would take such forces to intervene.

Operating away from the African coasts theoretically demands either a proportionally large logistics base and associated contingency transport footprint, or prepositioned equipment and supplies in theater.
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  #3  
Old 31 May 16, 01:56
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At least two points the video miss:

#1 FranceAfrique, a kind of political connection between politicals class of France and African countries often tainted with corruption.

#2 Language : France usually intervene in French speaking countries, a marked advantage for intelligence/communication with population.
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  #4  
Old 31 May 16, 10:58
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France’s history in Africa is very mixed, as is the history of every colonial power.
I opinion is that she behaved very badly in Algeria and participated in some very questionable actions and contributed directly and indirectly to vast amounts of unnecessary bloodshed but I am open to correction as my reading on the topic has been quite limited.
For me France’s actions before and during the Rwandan Genocide is one of her darkest hours and stands out as a shameful period in her modern history. The mitigating factor there is that it was the behaviour of a relatively small number of politicians and the French people were not aware of what their government was doing or later covering up.

A government is not a nation.
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Old 31 May 16, 16:31
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Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
For me France’s actions before and during the Rwandan Genocide is one of her darkest hours and stands out as a shameful period in her modern history.
Everyone was still gun shy from Somalia.

I'm not sure their actions or inactions were any worse than other nations. When the world finally woke up and started to care......I remember France being a major player in relief operations.
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Old 01 Jun 16, 06:04
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Read “Shake hands With the Devil” and “Season of Blood” for context. In my opinion members of the French government knew what they were dealing with and kept the Hutu government in power before and during the genocide. There are numerous accounts of French Special Forces fighting with the Hutu forces which were committing the genocide. I’m not accusing the French military of participating in the killings or even really knowing what was going on but their political masters certainly did.
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Old 01 Jun 16, 10:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
I’m not accusing the French military of participating in the killings or even really knowing what was going on but their political masters certainly did.
It will take some time to get and read those books, but I will. Thanks for the recommendations.

That being said; taking the history of French interaction with the local governments after 1960......I find it difficult to believe that the political masters knew or were capable of knowing the extent of the genocide until it was too late. A case in point would be how they handled Bokassa.
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Old 08 Jun 16, 11:46
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Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
It will take some time to get and read those books, but I will. Thanks for the recommendations.

That being said; taking the history of French interaction with the local governments after 1960......I find it difficult to believe that the political masters knew or were capable of knowing the extent of the genocide until it was too late. A case in point would be how they handled Bokassa.
The Wiki link is a good, if incomplete, starting point into France's involvement and the subsequent cover-up's, lies and whitewashes from both France and the current Tutsi government of Rwanda. It's hard to like any of the main players in this debacle.
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Old 03 Jul 16, 10:29
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Man!
You love to talk about France!
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Old 04 Jul 16, 06:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
Man!
You love to talk about France!
I am very critical of the role of the French government at the time. They are not France. What makes France a great country is that the most vocal critics of their actions were other French people and they could protest in the certainty that they were free and safe to do so. The same applied to the USA, the UK, Ireland and other truly free countries. That’s why we are superior to oppressive countries like Iran, China and Russia and that’s why we should hole ourselves to higher standards.
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  #11  
Old 04 Jul 16, 07:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. Morel View Post
I am very critical of the role of the French government at the time. They are not France. What makes France a great country is that the most vocal critics of their actions were other French people and they could protest in the certainty that they were free and safe to do so. The same applied to the USA, the UK, Ireland and other truly free countries. That’s why we are superior to oppressive countries like Iran, China and Russia and that’s why we should hole ourselves to higher standards.
No,no,no!!
Was responding to a spammer,not to you!!
The guy flooded the forum with never ending posts..
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Old 04 Jul 16, 12:36
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No,no,no!!
Was responding to a spammer,not to you!!
The guy flooded the forum with never ending posts..
I guess that means that you are talking about me?

I don't think that I have ever posted anything really negative about France.

I have taken many road trips through France on the way to the Czech Republic. Attend four battle studies at Belleau Wood, I have found the French to be some of the nicest people around.

Oh.....I also lived in the Central African Republic for 18 months while the relief efforts was going on for Rwanda.
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Old 16 Aug 16, 17:08
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French expeditionary experience in Africa

I found a quite insightful article on how the French expeditionary force operated in Mali and especially the role of the company sized SGTIA and the battalion sized GTIA and the role of logistics.
As for the French regional expertise, the in the article mentioned aspects of obtaining bottled water as well as fuel locally were the envy of the UN as was the smooth cooperation with the local population, knowing the human terrain in advance.

http://www.css.ethz.ch/en/services/d...form=hootsuite

Having served in Mali with the French myself, both Serval and Barkhane, I can neither find that much fault with the article's findings
nor with its astute and raw conclusions, invoking Napoleonics (how what else could we expect in an article on the French army)
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Last edited by Colonel Sennef; 16 Aug 16 at 17:38..
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Old 17 Aug 16, 01:50
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I have read it Jeroen and it is very enlightening ,and for once , we are seen like warriors who know their job.
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Old 17 Aug 16, 05:18
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good at improvising and flexibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebfrench76 View Post
I have read it Jeroen and it is very enlightening ,and for once , we are seen like warriors who know their job.
Indeed, a view I've always held.
My professional view of the French military got shaped since I first started to work with them in Yugolsavia during the early nineties.
I considered them 'smart fighters', very good at improvising and flexibility which in the chaos that is war is of overriding importance.

It was only in Mali and in the whole of francophone Africa that they appeared to me as really superior, in particular because of their grasp of the 'human terrain' as this article stresses as well.

I can imagine how refreshing it must be to the French to be presented here in US professional literature as second to none professionals who know their job.
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