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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > American Age of Discovery, Colonization, Revolution, & Expansion > American Revolution

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American Revolution 1763-1789 The birth of a new nation - to commence at the Proclaimation of 1763 to the end of the Articles of Confederation.

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  #31  
Old 26 May 16, 09:05
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A system of control must be in place the Stop Log method was used for centuries world wide by empires: Babylon, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Aztec, Pueblo Indians, etc... Ancient Canal Systems in the Americas: http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/americacanals.htm
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  #32  
Old 26 May 16, 09:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmackUm View Post
I'm thinking a log at the top of a dam which you would pin or un pin by driving stakes into the earth or removing them just enough to give clearance would act as a primitive lock.
Do we have examples of this system from history? The existence of such, or the lack of same, would be informative.

Why not just heave the canoe over the dam? It's going to land who know how anyway, ass-over-teakettle is one probable outcome. Two guy ropes, one on either bank, would help with that. Four would be better?
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Old 26 May 16, 10:51
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Oh, ...

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Originally Posted by jf42 View Post
Um

Easy, Tiger. I think your presentation was a little misleading, rather than there being anything wrong with his reading.... "I dont think" was buried above the fold.
... I'm cool and relaxed , my "not-so-easy-tiger" moment was feigned. I recognized that OP was being deliberately obtuse, he's been displaying aggressiveness in his associative play with Mark V, the little boy down the street. I deliberately included the "I don't think", as a polite nod to SmackUm. He's from the northern Great Lakes, an area surrounded by Oji-Cree First Nation culture, I didn't think he was finished playing, and could provide more relevant info.
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Old 27 May 16, 02:24
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I am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmat View Post
... I'm cool and relaxed , my "not-so-easy-tiger" moment was feigned. I recognized that OP was being deliberately obtuse, he's been displaying aggressiveness in his associative play with Mark V, the little boy down the street. I deliberately included the "I don't think", as a polite nod to SmackUm. He's from the northern Great Lakes, an area surrounded by Oji-Cree First Nation culture, I didn't think he was finished playing, and could provide more relevant info.
clearly out of my depth.


But,"Hohokum"- really?
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Old 27 May 16, 10:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Do we have examples of this system from history? The existence of such, or the lack of same, would be informative.

Why not just heave the canoe over the dam? It's going to land who know how anyway, ass-over-teakettle is one probable outcome. Two guy ropes, one on either bank, would help with that. Four would be better?
Yes there are examples used all over the world as well as here in North America. They were a simple method used to control the flow of water the Chicago Portage presents an example of reversible flow w/ Willow Springs ground water & Rain water providing Mud Lake with the required elevation.

I think that a dug out could as you say be run up and over the dam/ flood gate as they are more robust than the more fragile unidirectional birch bark canoe made of birch bark plates laid out like the scales of a fish.

Way back when before the horse trails and canoe routes made up the transportation system in North America.

This we can see by the finds of Ancient Copper from Isle Royal being worked into items of trade like plates, knives, arrow heads, etc... in places like Chicago & Saint Louis many miles from Minong Mine, Isle Royale, Lake Superior.
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Old 11 Jun 16, 02:19
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I don’t know much about primitive locks and dams to help travel across a river system but I am familiar with the concept of building a primitive dam to back up water and then breaking it to enable boats to float down river on the crest of the flood. RE: General Sullivan’s Expedition in 1779.
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In 1770 General Clinton's army passed down the valley from Otsego lake to join General Sullivan's forces to the westward. On their march they laid waste the rude hamlets wherever any Indian nations remained. The tradition had been handed down that when Clinton's dam was built for the purpose of raising the water of the lake in order that their luggage might be borne down on a flood-tide, the Indians were terrified at the diminution of the water, supposing it to be the work of the Great Spirit, and sped from the valley. General Clinton's passage through the valley was aided by means of batteaux which carried the luggage while the main army followed the well-worn trail that led down the river to the westward. An encampment was made for one night, at VanDerwerker's mill. This VanDerwerker built the first grist mill that was erected in the town. It stood southeasterly fifty rods from the Oneonta Milling Company's building. Near this old mill site the trail crossed the river some distance north of the iron bridge now spanning the Susquehanna at the lower end of Main street. Vestiges of the old mill dam were pointed out to me many years ago by my grandfather, Dr. Joseph Lindsay.
Source: http://theusgenweb.org/ny/otsego/his...ahistory1.html
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Congress, on February 27, 1779, passed a resolution authorizing General Washington to take the most effectual measures for protecting the inhabitants of the Northwestern frontier and to chastise the Indians. A vigorous campaign was contemplated entailing the entire destruction of everything upon which the Indians depended for food and shelter. On March 6th, 1779, Washington appointed Gen. John Sullivan to take command of the expedition. The plan adopted was for the main army, under General Sullivan, to rendezvous at Wyoming, and from there ascend the Susquehanna River while Gen. James Clinton, starting from Albany, advancing with his brigade along the Mohawk as far as Canajoharie, was to transport his boats, troops and provisions overland to Otsego Lake and there await Sullivan's orders to form a junction with his troops at Tioga. To accomplish this, Clinton was compelled to erect a dam at the outlet of Otsego Lake to get sufficient volume of water impounded to float his loaded boats down the shallow Susquehanna to Tioga.
Source: http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/re...story/067.html

Other info about the dam can be found at:

http://www.mohawkvalleyhistory.com/d...m#.V1uq1bsrKUk
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Old 11 Jun 16, 02:51
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Back to the original posting at the head of this topic.

Regarding the attack of the Spanish on Fort St. Joseph: As I understand it the location of the fort was at the current location of Niles, Michigan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_S...iles,_Michigan)

This attack led to a retaliatory attack on Fort San Carlos in what is now St Louis, MO, by the British and Indians. The location of that fort is where the current Ball Park Village stands next to the Cardinals’ stadium.
Quote:
The attack on St. Louis came on May 26, 1780. The Creole population, which mostly regarded both de Leyba and Clark as nuisances, had paid little heed to the warnings of war. Most of the townsfolk, both free and slave, were outside of de Leyba’s makeshift walls gathering spring strawberries, when, as de Leyba wrote, a force of 500 Indians burst upon the town “like madmen, with an unbelievable boldness and fury, making terrible cries and a terrible firing.” Within minutes 40 civilians had been killed.

De Leyba’s fort saved the day. The governor and his men rushed to their posts and unleashed a bombardment of grapeshot from five small cannon he had deployed in the tower. At the same time, George Rogers Clark’s tiny force repulsed a similar assault on the French village of Cahokia across the river. Incredibly, British intelligence had failed to discover that the town had been fortified, and Indian troops were never big on sieges, much less suicidal charges. The attack collapsed and the Indians turned their attention to raiding and burning nearby farms, slaughtering farm animals, and taking captives. In all, the death toll around St. Louis was over 100 — a heartbreaking 15% of the area’s population.
[…]
Though de Leyba and the stunned inhabitants could never have known it at the time, the consequences of the Battle of San Carlos were anything but minor. Because of the Spanish and American victory at San Carlos, the entire British campaign in the Mississippi Valley dissolved in finger-pointing and disarray, and Indian troops headed for home. The Spanish could add the result to other victories they had won in Natchez, Mobile, and Pensacola. In short, the United States and Spain retained control of the West, and the Spanish retained possession of the Mississippi. If this small battle had gone the other way, the effect on American history could have been incalculable.
https://franceshunter.wordpress.com/...of-san-carlos/

This is why if you can prove that you have descent from Spanish supporters of the American Revolution, as for instance, some folks in Santa Fe, New Mexico, who gave money at the request of King Carlos of Spain, you are eligible for membership in the DAR and SAR.
Quote:
During the course of the past two decades, various efforts were conducted by members of the National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) and the National Society of the Sons of the American Revolution (SAR) to formally document the names of individuals of the Spanish Americas who gave funds to support the war against Great Britain during the time that the patriots of the United States of America fought for their independence against the British crown. These efforts, supported by volunteer efforts of several people of Colorado and New Mexico, resulted in the official recognition of numerous citizens of the Spanish Americas as patriots of the revolution of the United States of America. The volunteer efforts of several people of Colorado and New Mexico helped to identify and verify the names those citizens of New Mexico who gave funds to the cause.
Source: https://www.goodreads.com/author/sho...exico-patriots

To me this is a very interesting and little known aspect of the American Revolution.

As much as we currently denigrate our Mexican immigrants (both legal and illegal) we owe much to them historically.
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