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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Weapons of War > Air Power

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Air Power A place to discuss the implements of War in the Air!

View Poll Results: Fighter aircraft for Finland for 2020->
Eurofighter 3 8.33%
Gripen NG 13 36.11%
Lightning II 3 8.33%
Rafale 3 8.33%
Super Hornet (Advanced?) 14 38.89%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 02 May 16, 15:14
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Finns want fighters

So... Finns have chosen to ask offers from USA, UK, France and Sweden as the current F-18C/D aircraft are getting somewhat old.

Options are (or so it seems...) Lightning II, (Advanced) Super Hornet, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen NG. And possibly an assortment of drones.

Keeping in mind that it is a long term deal and operating & maintenance costs do factor in which would be your choice for Finland, and why?

Capability of operating from road bases is mandatory. Carrier capability doesn't hurt (because of this: Arrestor wire landing at road base). Ease of maintenance (especially) without access to hangars a definite plus.

Last edited by Vaeltaja; 02 May 16 at 15:19..
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  #2  
Old 02 May 16, 16:10
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While I might have said the Gripen, I'd say the Super Hornet would be a better choice on the basis of upgradability and maintainability.
Either could operate from roads and short strips. The Hornet has the added plus of already being fully designed and used in harsh environments being a carrier plane. This is more so than its land based cousins usually receive in that respect. Folding wings and the arrester hook make for arrested landings and the ability to be stored in tight spaces.

I don't see age of the design as a big drawback. Jet fighter design has reached something of a peak beyond which they aren't going to get a whole lot better than they are today.
The two engine design adds a big safety factor, particularly given the plane will be operating in arctic conditions and poor weather regularly.
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  #3  
Old 02 May 16, 16:33
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I would say: Go for Gripen.
I see two advantages:
1. Get the neighbours involved. Better a good and close neighbour than a far friend. Supply and ease of maintenance should neither now nor in the future be a problem with Swedish planes.
2. The Swedes operate under the same climatic conditions as Finland and have the same operational principles you mentioned.
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  #4  
Old 02 May 16, 16:43
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IMHO, STOL, ease of maintainence and updateability of electronics and weapons kits would/should be prime factors in the decision making, along with range and loiter considerations.
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Old 02 May 16, 16:45
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F-35 buy the best but if not then the Super Hornet then the Gripen.
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Old 02 May 16, 17:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceW View Post
F-35 buy the best but if not then the Super Hornet then the Gripen.
Buy the F-35 -- whenever it becomes available.
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Old 02 May 16, 18:14
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My opinions...

If Gripen came with two engines instead of just one i would choose that. It doesn't (and neither does F-35) which is a somewhat bad thing. On the other hand I'm fairly certain that F-35's trump card - i.e. stealth - will be of limited usefulness in mid 2025 when the new fighters would replace the F-18C/Ds - after all Moore's law and other things indicates that detection should to be developing much faster than stealth. Eurofighter and Rafale are both interesting but I'm not really seeing either of the standing head and shoulders above the others, more like it is a choice between equal performance (but different color) Renault and Volkswagen. Given that Gripen's design is certainly suitable for the local conditions this seems to leave me into a tie between Gripen and Super Hornet.
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Old 02 May 16, 18:31
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Toss up between Super Hornet and Gripen. Most of it has already been said, but I'd also note that the US and a lot of other countries have Super Hornets and will have them for quite some time to come. That means that SH operators can and will be making additional upgrades over the years, to electronics and other things. Finland would get to benefit from this as well.

I agree, unless you're going stealth, fighter tech has pretty well peaked. I like the Gripen, and I don't think they'd be served wrong to have it. OTOH, I think that the Super Hornet would have a lot more options long term. And as F35 nations do some replacing, there'd be options for the Finns to acquire parts, planes, and other associated gear at discount prices to supplement their purchase.
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Old 02 May 16, 18:32
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Gripen, probably, with the Super Hornet an acceptable alternative.
I think that the considerations that went into the design of the aircraft to render it suitable for Swedish service apply similarly for Finland.
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Old 02 May 16, 21:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_miester View Post
Buy the F-35 -- whenever it becomes available.
They need the next fighter by 2025 the F-35c will be ready before then.
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Old 02 May 16, 22:40
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I would hope the Gripen has better range than the Super Hornet. Still how far does the Finns operate from their airfields? Do they operate tanker aircraft? The USN has them and uses them.

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Old 03 May 16, 02:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceW View Post
They need the next fighter by 2025 the F-35c will be ready before then.
For the Fins? I mean lots of countries are getting them first.


Choice is supper hornet or grippen. I would say supper hornet since you have the older modles. You got experiance in dealing with the companies that run the logistics. But the gripen could be cheaper to buy and run.
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Old 03 May 16, 03:23
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The real questions that should be asked here is, when do you want them, what will be available at that time and do you want used?

If you want them starting in 2025, their will not be much in the way of options, AFAIK the only plane that will be in production at that time frame will be the F-35. None of the others have the orders to keep them in production till 2025 from what I know. And out side of the F/A-18 I do not think their is enough air frames around for some one to give you some second hand, at lest in usable numbers.

If you need them starting in 2020, then theirs more options.
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Old 03 May 16, 03:47
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The real questions that should be asked here is, when do you want them, what will be available at that time and do you want used?

If you want them starting in 2025, their will not be much in the way of options, AFAIK the only plane that will be in production at that time frame will be the F-35. None of the others have the orders to keep them in production till 2025 from what I know. And out side of the F/A-18 I do not think their is enough air frames around for some one to give you some second hand, at lest in usable numbers.

If you need them starting in 2020, then theirs more options.
There is a brazil and swedish order for the gripen ng
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Old 03 May 16, 03:48
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Dassault Rafale.
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